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General Chat Thread, ID cards in General; If you are against the introduction of ID cards, there is an on-line petition you can sign at: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IDcards/ Worth ...
  1. #1

    witch's Avatar
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    ID cards

    If you are against the introduction of ID cards, there is an on-line petition you can sign at: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IDcards/


    Worth a go, I think

  2. #2
    Pottsey's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    Are there any petitions for them? You seem to always hear about the people against them but the people who are happy dont make a fuss about it. I guess its like most things the unhappy foke are always more vocal.

  3. #3
    alan-d's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    I'm not against ID cards as such - only the amount of information contained in them.

  4. #4
    mrforgetful's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    They could be ok but I don't think they should be so expensive if they're compulsory.

    £20 maximum.

    Also I really don't see them helping to combat any of the things Government say ie illegal imigration, terrorism etc.

  5. #5
    steve's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    Why is the governments answer to everything at the moment to use technology?

    Schools, Hospitals, Traffic, now ID cards!

    Only one slight problem - its all at odds with their stand on climate change, unless technology can fix that too??

    They won't be compulsory - unless you get a new passport - which have risen in price massivly too.

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    StewartKnight's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    nobody has really come up with a good arguement FOR id cards!


    [rant]
    Lets say it costs £9bn, what would you rather spend that money on?
    More police officers?
    More hospitals?
    an ineffective useless card with your picture and fingerprint on it?

    Come on, this money would be thrown hand over fist at IT companies, who'd make a pigs ear of it, and then we'll be asked to pay £90, on the premise that it will stop every manner of affliction that effects society today!

    Id fraud..... ID card will stop that!
    Terrorism... ID card will stop that!
    Benefits fraud.... ID card will stop that!
    Illegal immigrants.... ID card will stop that!
    Speeding motorists.... ID card will stop that!


    I don't think so! Someone explain HOW id cards will solve it, not just telling us it will!
    I bet the only reason Tony is so keen on them is because George Bush said so!

    £9bn (at least) WHAT A WASTE OF MY MONEY! (not all £9bn will be paid by me BTW!!)
    [/rant]

    Phew... feel better for that
    and no, I won't sign the petition!

  7. #7

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    I honestly don't have an issue with ID Cards ... we all carry thiem in one form or another anyway ... banks cards, national insurance cars, driving licence ...

    I carried one in the army and had no problem (thought penalties for losing one was a bit much ... £50 for the first, £100 for the second and £250 for the third with a possible 7 day stay in the local cells).

    Do I think it will be open to abuse? yes ... but why don;t we target why the abuse happens and try to control it instead of saying "No ... we will not do it!"

    After all ... if we said that we couldn't sort out the climate issues would we just keep on as we have been doing or would we at least try to do something?

    And yes ... I am playing devil's advocate to some extent ... I like a good arguement ;-)

  8. #8

    webman's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    but why don;t we target why the abuse happens and try to control it instead of saying "No ... we will not do it!"
    ID cards will solve that problem!!

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    Re: ID cards

    Not strictly on topic, but someone mentioned passports earlier. Have you seen the new epassports with a built-in microchip? My wife & daughter got theirs recently.

    To quote the BBC....

    Microchips in Britain's new ePassports only have two-year warranties, a National Audit Office report says.
    They are so new, no-one knows how long they will last, or how the scanners reading them will work, the NAO said.

    Public Accounts Committee chairman Edward Leigh said the fact they had a two-year warranty, when passports were kept for 10 years, was "most worrying".

    The Home Office said the ePassport had been rigorously tested, but it would work to improve the warranty.

    The chip holds biographical details - including the passport photo - which are scanned at a reader.

    The NAO report praised the department's Identity and Passport Service for bringing in the new passports on time and to international standards.

    But it urged the service to investigate the possibility of a longer chip warranty with the manufacturers.

    "Although it has been tested in laboratory conditions, the ability of the chip unit to withstand real life passport usage is unknown," it said.

    What happens if the chip fails outside of warranty I wonder?

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    Pottsey's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    “nobody has really come up with a good arguement FOR id cards!”
    It works in other counties that use them or so I was told. Never really looked into it in detail.

  11. #11

    witch's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey
    “nobody has really come up with a good arguement FOR id cards!”
    It works in other counties that use them or so I was told. Never really looked into it in detail.
    Yeah, Pottsey, that is the point - we are being TOLD that it works in other countries, but there is no proof - you wouldn't have to look into it as they would trumpet it in your face if there was.
    Personally, I don't want to live in a police state: I have the right to walk past a policeman without him knowing who I am unless I am doing something wrong - the point is, I am NOT in the forces, I am a private individual and have the right to remain so. If they could show me HOW ID cards will help in any shape or form to combat this that or the other, then I am prepared to sacrifice a little bit of personal freedom, but I HAVE looked in to it and as far as I can see there is no proof that they will help prevent ANYTHING.
    And as for the cost: I agree with StewartKnight (why won't you sign by the way?) - the money could be spent in so many other ways. I don't really see why we should have to pay at all - we get a National Insurance Number free, a medical number and other stuff - if they want to do it, then they should pay. (BEFORE you all shout that you have to pay for a passport, may I point out that you don't have to buy one if you don't want to).
    If you lot out there believe that they will help solve the world's ills, let's have the proof - or if not, why have them at all?

    rant over

  12. #12

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Re: ID cards

    I think people are confuseed by the introduction of this system. The majority of people against it for privacy reasons aren't against the card (unless it becomes compulsory to carry such a card) but are against thew giant database that will be spidered into all sorts of govt. depts and banks, credit agencies, job centres etc...

    The huge amount of data being stored on each person in a single centralised database is a serious threat to privacy and has so many possibilities for abuse that its disadvantages far outweight its advantages.

    Add into this argument the fact that it is a huge waste of money, that their will be large fines for those people who don't inform the central agency of address changes etc... and the possibility of compulsory carrying/showing when asked by a police officer and you start to see the entire picture.

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    SpuffMonkey's Avatar
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    Broc - I wondered about those chips - recently replaced my passport and was really surprised that the chip was mounted on a normal page where it can be flexed and bent, rather on a more rigid cardboard cover.

    I'm with witch - I really can't see the point (from an individual's point of view, rather than an authoritarian govt pov) - unless each card is stamped "Potential Terrorist" or "Criminal" - what use are they to reducing crime or terrorism?? Even if the police had the power (and lot of them think they do) to stop and demand ID - how does that stop any illegal act? The police in Spain have those powers and people have to carry ID _ but it doesn't stop any of the bombings there.

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    plexer's Avatar
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    From 1/10/2010 the contract for the production of Passports is passing to a new supplier and one of the additions that is being made is that the chip is being moved.

    I just got a new passport yeasterday so missed out on a new one.

    Ben

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    plexer's Avatar
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    http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/files/ips/...accessible.pdf

    The chip will be in the back cover.

    Ben

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