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General Chat Thread, Retirement Age being scrapped in General; So, the government is scrapping the ability for employers to retire people at 65, see BBC News - Fixed retirement ...
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    teejay's Avatar
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    Retirement Age being scrapped

    So, the government is scrapping the ability for employers to retire people at 65, see BBC News - Fixed retirement age to be axed.
    This won't affect your state pension rights, well until they stick that up as well, but means an employer can't make you retire.
    What annoys me with this is we have massive unemployment in the under 25's who are at the start of their working life. If more people are going to carry on working beyond their retirement age, then it means even fewer jobs for young people. The upshot of this is the young people will be in an even worse state with their pensions as the sooner you start paying into a pension the better the return, which is in the long term going to create an even bigger problem.
    Also, I would much rather our young people were given the opportunities and the self confidence being employed brings, rather than getting demoralised and depressed by being unemployed.

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    Disease's Avatar
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    Well if the previous government were not so fixated with sending everyone to uni and invested more in vocational training then there would not be so many young people on the Rock'n'roll with a useless degree's.

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    broc's Avatar
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    So you would rather see older people demoralised & depressed by being unemployed? Employment law says it is illegal to discriminate by age.....

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    torledo's Avatar
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    That could ease the strain on public finances as more people continue to pay tax, while at the same time claiming the state pension.
    but what if they work in the public sector... does drawing a wage from the public purse plus drawing a state pension still ease the strain on public finances ?

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    teejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    So you would rather see older people demoralised & depressed by being unemployed? Employment law says it is illegal to discriminate by age.....
    There is a limited pool of jobs, unless things change dramatically in the future, there really aren't enough jobs for everyone, especially if we increase the pool of people wanting jobs by removing the retirement age.
    So, it's a tough choice:
    a) get young people into employment
    b) allow older people to choose their retirement age rather than having it forced on them by legislation

    At the older end, they have had the benefit of a working life and may well find the transition to retirement difficult, but there are other options open to them as they have a pension, so voluntary work etc is a possibility.
    At the younger end, they have JSA which makes it difficult to do voluntary work, plus what a start to your adult life applying for hundreds of jobs and getting constant rejection.

    Oh and just to add, I'm nearer retirement age than I am the start of my career! Personally, I wouldn't continue working beyond the retirement age, simply because I feel it is unfair on those starting out.
    Last edited by teejay; 29th July 2010 at 12:00 PM.

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    broc's Avatar
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    Removing the mandatory retirement age allows people to continue working if they wish, it remains to be seen if the empoyers will accept this. Employers will have to balance the cost of employing older more experienced people vs younger people with less experience. There are many factors such as work ethic, loyalty, generally having to pay higher labour rates for experience, employee sickness & absenteeism levels, not to mention the ability to perform the tasks where it may be physically demanding.....

    The real goal for Govt & employers should be to create jobs for all who need them regardless of age, gender, or any of the many other factors that often discriminate.....

    Of course many older people may need to carry on working as they cannot afford to retire because their private pension has been eroded and the state pension has failed to keep pace with earnings over the years....

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    Disease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    There is a limited pool of jobs, unless things change dramatically in the future, there really aren't enough jobs for everyone, especially if we increase the pool of people wanting jobs by removing the retirement age.
    There is not a limited pool of jobs there are loads of jobs available to those who want work. The limiting factor is that while older people are more willing to do any job most young people are not willing to work unless it's for 5 hours or less a day, with 100 days holiday a year and £50 per hour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disease View Post
    There is not a limited pool of jobs there are loads of jobs available to those who want work. The limiting factor is that while older people are more willing to do any job most young people are not willing to work unless it's for 5 hours or less a day, with 100 days holiday a year and £50 per hour.
    There are what, just short of 3 million on JSA, several million about to be forced off disability allowance and told to look for work. Current job vacancies are around 1 million, so yes there is a limited pool of jobs.
    The assumption that everyone unemployed is lazy and doesn't want to work is complete rubbish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disease View Post
    There is not a limited pool of jobs there are loads of jobs available to those who want work. The limiting factor is that while older people are more willing to do any job most young people are not willing to work unless it's for 5 hours or less a day, with 100 days holiday a year and £50 per hour.
    Evidence? No, didn't think so


    Funny think is we had 2 kitchen fitters in last week. One old bloke close to retirement who sat there doing nothing for several days, one young chap who grafted his ass off the entuire time.
    Last edited by j17sparky; 29th July 2010 at 12:48 PM.

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    Maybe the Government will launch a campaign to promote this similar to Under 21 campaign.

    If you look under. 21 please do not be offended if we ask you for proof of age when you buy alcohol.

    If you look over sixty five, please do not be offended if we ask you if you want to continue working!

    Best person for the job is the only criteria I consider when interviewing people.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disease View Post
    There is not a limited pool of jobs there are loads of jobs available to those who want work. The limiting factor is that while older people are more willing to do any job most young people are not willing to work unless it's for 5 hours or less a day, with 100 days holiday a year and £50 per hour.
    Oh come now, you do realise how silly that sounds?! There is a limited pool of jobs - we wouldn't have any unemployment if there wasn't!

    Older people more willing to do any job? Nonsense. With age usually comes experience, and as such most older people expect to be well paid and won't go and do any old job. Go into any restaurant - who are the waitresses? Young people or old? Bin men? Young or old?

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    but what if they work in the public sector... does drawing a wage from the public purse plus drawing a state pension still ease the strain on public finances ?
    A good argument for means testing the state pension me thinks.

    In general I agree with this move. It should be up to the individual to choose when they wish to retire and not the state/company to push them out the door and on to the scrape heap because they have reached a predetermined age that lets face is actually quiet young now given modern life expectancies.

    Also, given modern life expectancies I don't think it's that outragous that the state pension age is put up either. I think men and women should have the same state pension age and that is probably around 70 years. That and means testing will save the country a few £££'s towards the old deficit and do so in a much farer way than raising VAT. (IMHO )

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    broc's Avatar
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    Much is made of the greater life expectancy, especially by well-heeled politicians, many of whom have never done a hard days work in their life.

    A lot of people, especially manual workers working in harsh physically demanding environments may not have the strength & stamina to continue working until they are 70...

    Also, there is a quality of life dimension to longetivity... medical science & health education means that many medical conditions that were killers are no longer so; but often people's lives are preserved but at the expense of their quality of life.

    Are older workers entitled to time spent in retirement while they still have some quality of life and are able to enjoy their retirement? Manipulating the pension system & forcing people to work longer could be at the expense of their quality of life in retirement. Do you spend your early retirement years in good health but skint, or do you work until you drop? That is the dilemma facing many older people today.....

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    Disease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    Evidence? No, didn't think so


    Funny think is we had 2 kitchen fitters in last week. One old bloke close to retirement who sat there doing nothing for several days, one young chap who grafted his ass off the entuire time.
    I can give you just as many examples where the reverse is true.

    The unemployment rate for the three months to May 2010 was 7.8 per cent, down 0.1 on the quarter. The number of unemployed people fell by 34,000 over the quarter to reach 2.47 million. The number of people unemployed for up to six months fell by 54,000, to reach 1.16 million. However, the number of people unemployed for more than twelve months increased by 61,000 over the quarter to reach 787,000, the highest figure since the three months to March 1997.

    The number of people claiming Jobseeker’s Allowance (the claimant count) fell by 20,800 between May and June 2010 to reach 1.46 million. The number of claimants fell in all regions except the North East and Northern Ireland where small increases were recorded

    The number of vacancies for the three months to June 2010 was 486,000, up 10,000 over the quarter. The sector showing the largest quarterly increase was wholesaling, retailing and motor vehicle repairs, where the number of vacancies increased by 11,000 on the quarter to reach 95,000.
    Source. NAtional Statistics Office which showed that unemployment was down and vacancies are up. You are assuming that Millions will be kicked off of incapacity.

    I know loads of young people who would not consider working at ASDA or Tesco stacking shelves and rather stay on the dole. I also know a load of people who should be kicked off of incapacity benefit and told to look for work. If I had my way they would get no financial support at all.
    Last edited by Disease; 29th July 2010 at 02:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disease View Post
    I can give you just as many examples where the reverse is true.
    Which doesn't mean accusing all youth of being lazy because they don't have jobs is in any way accurate, considered or fair. In fact it stinks of ageism.

    Source. NAtional Statistics Office which showed that unemployment was down and vacancies are up. You are assuming that Millions will be kicked off of incapacity.
    2.47 million people unemployed and seeking work in the quarter mentioned.
    2.07 million people considered inactive.
    0.49 million vacancies.

    Inactivity is not the same thing as unemployment - inactive refers to people who are of working age, but not employed for various reasons which are considered justified.

    I know loads of young people who would not consider working at ASDA or Tesco stacking shelves and rather stay on the dole. I also know a load of people who should be kicked off of incapacity benefit and told to look for work. If I had my way they would get no financial support at all.
    Which does not mean that all young people fall into this class. On top of which there's the consideration that some of these people would potentially be getting less money overall in return for their work. There are people who do cheat the system, but saying:

    The limiting factor is that while older people are more willing to do any job most young people are not willing to work unless it's for 5 hours or less a day, with 100 days holiday a year and £50 per hour.
    Displays a willing ignorance of the subject and prejudice against young people.
    Last edited by jamesb; 29th July 2010 at 02:08 PM.

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