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General Chat Thread, Retirement Age being scrapped in General; Originally Posted by gizmo2005 one of the onlya ways i could see this working is bringing back service for your ...
  1. #31

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo2005 View Post
    one of the onlya ways i could see this working is bringing back service for your country, that way the younger people get experiance and taught a trade and the elderly people get to continue working, we will be adding value to the country.
    Define service for your country.

  2. #32
    gizmo2005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Define service for your country.
    military or even into the health service!!!! they do this in different countrys and it works well!!!

  3. #33
    DrCheese's Avatar
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    I don't see why I should have been forced to put my career on hold to be forced into national service. You can't proclaim to live in a free society if your forced past adult age to do something you don't want to do.
    It should be optional, if you can't get a job within X time on benefits then it's suggested you sign up for it.

  4. #34

    ZeroHour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrCheese View Post
    I don't see why I should have been forced to put my career on hold to be forced into national service. You can't proclaim to live in a free society if your forced past adult age to do something you don't want to do.
    It should be optional.
    But imagine if they made service for over 65's, that could be rather logans run if you were sent to Afghanistan

  5. #35


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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Define service for your country.
    Isn't it normally defined as national service?

    In which case you've got a potential method of population control rolled in.

    I'm very much against the idea of national service myself - largely because I want to minimize in all ways my chances of getting shot, blown up or poisoned. I also don't like being shouted at by people who can order me to be shot, blown up, etc.

    Now some paid work creation schemes (we could do with more cycle tracks, and a few of the Sustrans tracks were built this way) might be a more effective option. Not compulsory work as such, but a bonus to basic benefits applied to those who can demonstrate a willingness to contribute in return.

  6. #36
    gizmo2005's Avatar
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    maybe but if we were brought up being told that when we reach 16 we either go into national service or care. we would not known any different would we lets be honest if society had seen this coming this could have been implemented years ago, its only a opinion DrChees were all entitled to say what we think would be a good idea

  7. #37


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    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo2005 View Post
    military or even into the health service!!!! they do this in different countrys and it works well!!!
    No. I have no interest in being any sort of miliary official, and no interest in working in the health service. Nor for that matter do I want anyone in the health service who may hold my life in my hands who is not there willingly.

    Maybe if soldiers were paid a better wage more people would choose to go into military service, but forcing people to do so is immoral.

  8. #38
    gizmo2005's Avatar
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    ok but the point is if the country don't do anything then the young are gunna be unemployed and the eldery are going to still be emloyed, there has to be a change somewhere!!!!

  9. #39


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    Quote Originally Posted by gizmo2005 View Post
    ok but the point is if the country don't do anything then the young are gunna be unemployed and the eldery are going to still be emloyed, there has to be a change somewhere!!!!
    Not necessarily. Entry level jobs are less likely to appeal to experienced older people who are unwilling to work their way back up from square one, so they'll be available. The way that advancement beyond that point happens would change, but people in the main are still going to want to retire from work when they can.

    There seems to be an assumption that removing the retirement age would automatically mean no one ever again left their job. Some people already work on past retirement, some retire early, and some retire at the retirement age. You may even find that the actual numbers involved would barely change, it just expands people's options and changes the expectations on them.

  10. Thanks to jamesb from:

    gizmo2005 (29th July 2010)

  11. #40
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    cant really argue with that one jamesb

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    A good argument for means testing the state pension me thinks.

    In general I agree with this move. It should be up to the individual to choose when they wish to retire and not the state/company to push them out the door and on to the scrape heap because they have reached a predetermined age that lets face is actually quiet young now given modern life expectancies.

    Also, given modern life expectancies I don't think it's that outragous that the state pension age is put up either. I think men and women should have the same state pension age and that is probably around 70 years. That and means testing will save the country a few £££'s towards the old deficit and do so in a much farer way than raising VAT. (IMHO )
    there's already means testing in the form of the pension credit, which effectively 'tops-up' the basic state pension. what they should do is extend the means testing to things like the winter fuel allowance. it's a nonsense to pay it to every pensioner above a certain age, regardless of income/savings/assets.

    a universal state pension should stay, and the condems have restored the link with earnings. But in all honesty, i don't think the current generation approaching retirement, 55-65....are at all in bad financial shape. Inspite of any inter-generational wealth transfer.

    It's not as if they don't have a mountain of housing equity, and there does exist pension credit for those without the full salary or private pension or BTL empire ;0)....all in all for most, state pension and means tested benefits isn't that bad as a basic level of income. Plus, on pension credit mortgage interest relief was until recently paid at 6.08%!!! benefiting tens of thousands of pensioners who bizarrely still have a mortgage, despite 15 years of house price inflation. must be all that MEW! and the wealth transfer i mentioned above.
    Last edited by torledo; 29th July 2010 at 07:19 PM.

  13. #42

    broc's Avatar
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    Means testing is fine in theory, but for benefits such as winter fuel allowance it would probably cost more to administer than the savings that might be made.

    Also, don't forget that many 'baby-boomers' may be 'asset-rich' but remain 'cash-poor', having spent years putting all their money into house purchase & raising a family & making sacrifices along the way. My children where teenagers before we could afford to take them on a foreign holiday.

    Selling the family home may release asset value, but you still need somewhere to live.... how would it be if baby-boomers sold their big expensive family homes & bought up starter homes, driving up the prices of these?

  14. #43

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    I've come to this one late, excuse me if it has been covered already.

    We are facing a demographic crisis, and not just the UK. The baby boom is long over, and those babies are nearing retirement. There are not enough kids being born today to support tomorrows ageing population. If those ageing continue to work, and if we continue to attract economic migrants, that stress on the economy will be lessened.

    There are many conflicting pressures on the economy (broadest sense) and I suspect it will only become apparent with hindsight which pressure was the greatest.

  15. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    Means testing is fine in theory, but for benefits such as winter fuel allowance it would probably cost more to administer than the savings that might be made.
    I think you do have a point there, but I can't help thinking that if the benefits system was simplified then that might off-set some of the cost of administering means-testing. If there was a single means tested saftey net pension paid at a livable wage then their shouldn't really be any need for winter fuel allowances or means testing these extra allowances.

    Selling the family home may release asset value, but you still need somewhere to live.... how would it be if baby-boomers sold their big expensive family homes & bought up starter homes, driving up the prices of these?
    I do understand that people work all their lives to buy their homes and want something to leave to their family when they are gone, but I also think that the welfare state should be a saftey net and not a god given right. If I was to find myself in an asset-rich cash-poor situation when I come to retire then I'd feel morally bound to free up some of those assets before going cap in hand to the state. There are schemes that free up to 75% of the value of your home once you retire and let you live their rent free. Of course it does mean that you have no house to leave to your kids when you die.

  16. #45

    broc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I think you do have a point there, but I can't help thinking that if the benefits system was simplified then that might off-set some of the cost of administering means-testing. If there was a single means tested saftey net pension paid at a livable wage then their shouldn't really be any need for winter fuel allowances or means testing these extra allowances.
    There already is, it is part of the taxation system. If your income exceeds your personal allowance you pay tax...... even as a pensioner.....



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