+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 53
General Chat Thread, HT Grant cut again! in General; My interest in this is based on our school's desire to become an academy, so this subject will be brought ...
  1. #31

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,529
    Thank Post
    527
    Thanked 2,648 Times in 2,049 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    925
    My interest in this is based on our school's desire to become an academy, so this subject will be brought up if we do - as we'll need provision, and whether we use the SWGfL or not will be on the agenda there...

  2. #32

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,523
    Thank Post
    375
    Thanked 677 Times in 551 Posts
    Rep Power
    166
    Wonder how much they'll charge when you want to buy back in when they roll out 100mb and you're stuck on your bonded ADSL.

    Problem with LEA broadband is it's not fair, it's never going to be. The cost of connecting a small primary in the middle of no where is always going to cost more then a school next door to a local exchange. At the end of the day, you got to think about it being your donation to getting your entire LEA online. It's all government money, it's not your money. If you think of it as your money, they should introduce you to the poor school(s) they won't be able to give a good connection to because you can't see the bigger picture (hopefully it'll be your feeder schools).

    At the end of the day it's like the e-learning credits, it's best not to think of it as real money and try and get as much as you can get out of it.

  3. 3 Thanks to matt40k:

    GrumbleDook (6th July 2010), PiqueABoo (7th July 2010), SimpleSi (6th July 2010)

  4. #33
    gaz350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Rutland, east.leicestershire :P
    Posts
    579
    Thank Post
    47
    Thanked 49 Times in 41 Posts
    Rep Power
    29
    See this is why I hate the rbc and the "lea" way of doing things. Every school is different, why purchase the same thing for every school? Would the school buy these things if they were to be given that pot of money or spend it on some other software/resource they really need?

  5. #34
    torledo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,928
    Thank Post
    168
    Thanked 155 Times in 126 Posts
    Rep Power
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    The cut is apparently 'to help ensure no additional borrowing this year' and it is 'a further reduction to take this year’s funding down to £100m, allowing schools to reconfigure their broadband and IT infrastructure projects onto a more sustainable funding model' ....
    The document also says,

    Q Does this mean that schools will have to abandon broadband contracts that are essential to a data rich IT environment?
    A These contracts are a call on revenue, not capital, funding.

  6. #35

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,523
    Thank Post
    375
    Thanked 677 Times in 551 Posts
    Rep Power
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    My interest in this is based on our school's desire to become an academy, so this subject will be brought up if we do - as we'll need provision, and whether we use the SWGfL or not will be on the agenda there...
    Guess that's what that £25k you get for inquirying about is for (among other things). Will you be able to still use SWGfL

  7. #36

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,529
    Thank Post
    527
    Thanked 2,648 Times in 2,049 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    925
    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Guess that's what that £25k you get for inquirying about is for (among other things). Will you be able to still use SWGfL
    I think the question will be closer to 'will we WANT to use the SWGfL'...

  8. #37

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,523
    Thank Post
    375
    Thanked 677 Times in 551 Posts
    Rep Power
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by gaz350 View Post
    See this is why I hate the rbc and the "lea" way of doing things. Every school is different, why purchase the same thing for every school? Would the school buy these things if they were to be given that pot of money or spend it on some other software/resource they really need?
    You get to go to the meeting where they decided what they are going to do. Broadband is one of those things I think every school needs.

  9. #38

    matt40k's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Ipswich
    Posts
    4,523
    Thank Post
    375
    Thanked 677 Times in 551 Posts
    Rep Power
    166
    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I think the question will be closer to 'will we WANT to use the SWGfL'...
    Not sure if E2BN will stretch to you lol

  10. #39

    localzuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Minehead
    Posts
    18,529
    Thank Post
    527
    Thanked 2,648 Times in 2,049 Posts
    Blog Entries
    24
    Rep Power
    925
    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Not sure if E2BN will stretch to you lol
    I think we'd be looking more at a commercial offering, such as business grade ADSL load balanced or something like that.

  11. #40

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    10,074
    Thank Post
    1,384
    Thanked 1,889 Times in 1,170 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    614
    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    The document also says,

    Q Does this mean that schools will have to abandon broadband contracts that are essential to a data rich IT environment?
    A These contracts are a call on revenue, not capital, funding.
    HT Grant is also used to maintain and continue capital investment, and some in some LAs the schools said 'keep (some of / most of / all of ) the money as you will only give it to us and then invoice to get it back' ... It is shoving money around to fit the need to send it out and then get it back to force it to be banked as 'revenue'. Pointless bureaucracy to make bean-counters happy to label it something.

  12. #41
    gaz350's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Rutland, east.leicestershire :P
    Posts
    579
    Thank Post
    47
    Thanked 49 Times in 41 Posts
    Rep Power
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    You get to go to the meeting where they decided what they are going to do. Broadband is one of those things I think every school needs.
    I agree, but we don't need to procure 20 other services we don't want at the same time just to get it

  13. #42

    john's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    10,447
    Thank Post
    1,537
    Thanked 1,069 Times in 934 Posts
    Rep Power
    305
    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Wonder how much they'll charge when you want to buy back in when they roll out 100mb and you're stuck on your bonded ADSL.
    The day our LA put out 100mb lines I think will be the day that the oceans freeze over. Were told 10mb is all we need and if we want more the costs will go up and we have to pay more. All secondary schools are on 10mb and no plans to increase this over the next few years was the last conversation on that I had, and tbh for the size of my establishment who can survive very well on an 8mb ADSL without detriment to T&L the 100mb cherry is nice but I'd rather have flexibility, reduced costs and a good service over that figure of oooh look at my dark fibre incomer.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt40k View Post
    Problem with LEA broadband is it's not fair, it's never going to be. The cost of connecting a small primary in the middle of no where is always going to cost more then a school next door to a local exchange. At the end of the day, you got to think about it being your donation to getting your entire LEA online. It's all government money, it's not your money. If you think of it as your money, they should introduce you to the poor school(s) they won't be able to give a good connection to because you can't see the bigger picture (hopefully it'll be your feeder schools).

    At the end of the day it's like the e-learning credits, it's best not to think of it as real money and try and get as much as you can get out of it.
    Do you pay for Internet or Connectivity? We never pay for Internet but Connectivity were told, fine without connectivity we don't get Internet (yes its a vicious circle), this is one thing that in my view seems a way of escaping people saying the Internet is expensive.

    What I find scary is we all pay the same base plus a cost per pupil, which is better than you all pay £x flat as it gives some level of your bigger so pay more, but this is an incredibly high costs for connecting us, were incredibly rural here, fine not as rural as say Zerohour's homeland up in Scotland but we are quite rural, had to campaign to get ADSL in our exchanges etc but the costs just seem so high to me and others. If I could see a huge list of real world T&L benifits, included resources, services, systems etc that we get for no extra cost as part of the "connectivity" then I would think twice but all we see it is is we pay for "connectivity" and that gets us Internet, Email and Web hosting, all of which are not suitable for our needs, we've removed the e-mail angle, the only reason we feed the SMTP via them is we have no choice, but I can assure you we don't want it via there systems, we pay an external firm to host our website due to the limted services originally offered when they did the site (yes this has changed since but its the usual locking the stable door after the horse has bolted), and the Internet, may work according to contract, but in reality isn't working for a 21st century curriculum which surely is what we are trying to teach.

  14. #43

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    10,074
    Thank Post
    1,384
    Thanked 1,889 Times in 1,170 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    614
    Quote Originally Posted by gaz350 View Post
    See this is why I hate the rbc and the "lea" way of doing things. Every school is different, why purchase the same thing for every school? Would the school buy these things if they were to be given that pot of money or spend it on some other software/resource they really need?
    The issue arises (and YMMV in each RBC and LA but principles are similar) that when you try to get a range of services to sit on to of the connectivity you have to get economies of scale. I know that lots of people on here will shout that they can do better but remember that you are just a section of the schools out there and it is often difficult for many schools to sustainably provide all the services they need, whether it is decent filtering (I do not count Dansguardian with a bit of fiddling decent ... or ISA with a blacklist updated by the IT team decent either ... you get what you pay for!) email, video conferencing, authentication, VLEs, T&L resources ... and the time, effort, cost and skill set to setup, maintain and improve these is often more costly to a school (almost back to the middleware discussion about whether it enables you to get on with other things) and also provides a risk ... especially if it is something 'bespoke' that has been setup which the next network manager will say is rubbish and rip out for *their* preferred solution (how many times have we seen folk post on here about having to do that!)

    In an LA with a wide variety of types of schools you will get some which will get a good deal by moving to a commercial carrier as they are really close to an exchange, and others who will cost a fortune. LAs are going to try and smooth that.

    Back to services though ... there are times when you are trying to set up services and when you are working on the contractor and you want a framework agreement (you only pay what you take up) then the unit cost can be quite high. When you start saying that actually, you know that 20% of the schools will make use of the service then a flat cost an work out cheaper ... especially when you start saying that 15% use it now, but it could go up to 35% ...

    Personally I prefer framework agreements as I come from a background of choice and flexibility ... but there is also the leadership bit of the only way you will get some schools adopting various chunks of technology is through pump-priming ... force it into schools to make a difference ... and yes, this is schools without IT support and who need direction from someone. They might only pick up 2 things out of 10 ... but those 2 things could keep them satisfactory or even move them up to good ... and then inspire them to take control themselves.

    If an LA does its job right it might not be needed once schools are at the right level. But schools aren't yet. There is still a big gap and the removal of funds is going to make that gap bigger.

    Then again ... a chunk of what is going on is politics and power. The funds are just a tool in this and it will mean a cut in services as schools drift away to do their own thing ... and that will put up costs both now and when the strategy changes in 2-3 years' time.

  15. #44
    torledo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,928
    Thank Post
    168
    Thanked 155 Times in 126 Posts
    Rep Power
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    HT Grant is also used to maintain and continue capital investment, and some in some LAs the schools said 'keep (some of / most of / all of ) the money as you will only give it to us and then invoice to get it back' ... It is shoving money around to fit the need to send it out and then get it back to force it to be banked as 'revenue'. Pointless bureaucracy to make bean-counters happy to label it something.
    isn't the point that how much is now required for capital investment to meet broadband targets, and how much of it is actually 'maintenance/provision' of the service. The argument seems to be that the heavy lifting capital spend should have been undertaken, and now maybe this will focus minds on delivering the same for less ? If not, then surely it needs to be explained why it can't be. Why it continues to require the same level of capital spend despite previous years investment to put infrastructure in place...

    It's alright to say, we need the money for capital investment. But isn't what your talkng about effectively running [revenue] costs as far as delivering a broadband service. It's not pointless beuracracy to distinguish between a capital investment and the running costs of the initial capital investment

  16. #45

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gosport, Hampshire
    Posts
    10,074
    Thank Post
    1,384
    Thanked 1,889 Times in 1,170 Posts
    Blog Entries
    19
    Rep Power
    614
    @Torledo

    Look at it like this. There is a pot of money called Capital which contains £10k for your school. The schools in general (schools forum) have agreed that they will be billed for connectivity and services. The LA send you your £10k. They then send you a bill for £10k and this comes back into the LA in a pot called revenue. It is the same money! It is a waste of everyone's time.

    The problem is that some LAs do this for some, most or all of the funds ... giving a very mixed approach. The sophistry that goes on is stupid.

    If an LA sorts out a VLE contract for 3 years (the HT grant timescale) then the setup, running and training can be put as a capital investment. After that it is revenue and you put the choice out to schools to buy it. Or you do the capital for one year and then bill schools for the other two as revenue?

    And I know there will be those that say 'well, once we have the money the LA is not getting it back!' ... but the LA will just cut the other monies by the required amount if they need to. There is a careful balance between schools collectively agreeing something and each school only looking after number 1. They tend to want to all be treating equally unfairly as they never know when they will take a big hit and need support.



SHARE:
+ Post New Thread
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Harnessing Technology grant going?
    By Mr.Ben in forum General Chat
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 19th January 2011, 11:27 AM
  2. Sun Matching Grant
    By linescanner in forum Hardware
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 21st October 2009, 12:35 AM
  3. Sun Matching Grant
    By linescanner in forum Hardware
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 19th May 2009, 09:27 AM
  4. Lost our Harnessing Technology Grant?
    By SimpleSi in forum CLEO
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 3rd March 2009, 04:02 PM
  5. grant temp admin rights
    By mtupker in forum Scripts
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 8th September 2007, 08:55 PM

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •