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General Chat Thread, My standard of living falls below the acceptable standard. in General; Originally Posted by Greenbeast So much rubbish we just don't need. There is, however, nothing wrong with wanting things. There's ...
  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeast View Post
    So much rubbish we just don't need.
    There is, however, nothing wrong with wanting things. There's a fine line between a sensible desire for leisure and enjoyment (and related devices) and outright greed, but it is important to note that the line is there. If I choose to go on holiday somewhere expensive, and I save appropriately to do so, who are you to judge whether or not I 'need' that holiday?

    I'm miffed when people suggest i leave to work in industry so i can earn loads more money, i always just reply 'i don't want loads more money at the expense of my happiness, thanks'
    Strange, I say the same thing (without the money bit) when people ask me why I left working in education. I am much, much happier where I am than where I was.

  2. #32


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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    i always beats me why peole moan about money being tight then spend 100s on holidays that would be one of the first things gave up an havnt been on holiday for years anyway as organising it is more hassle i can live wthout. just book time off and if weathers good and i feel likeit just go wherever takes my fancy
    The reason people need a holiday is often to relax, and when I am on holiday it is about the only time I dont think about what I'm spending due to all the saving I've done before hand. What I dont understand is people who pay for a holiday on a credit card and then struggle to pay it back. I believe if you haven't got the money now, you cant afford it. But you should be able to treat yourself now and again, be that on a car, holiday or gadgets, thats why we work isn't it?

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by penfold View Post
    But you should be able to treat yourself now and again, be that on a car, holiday or gadgets, thats why we work isn't it?
    It's a slight modification of an old saying, but I think it fits.

    Don't live to work, don't work to live, work to enjoy life.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    There is, however, nothing wrong with wanting things. There's a fine line between a sensible desire for leisure and enjoyment (and related devices) and outright greed, but it is important to note that the line is there. If I choose to go on holiday somewhere expensive, and I save appropriately to do so, who are you to judge whether or not I 'need' that holiday?
    fair enough, but holidays are non-essential as far as i'm concerned.

    my job isn't always the best for my personal happiness but it's pretty low stress and close to home, there are other jobs i'd probably prefer to do but when people mention leaving to me, it's usually to do IT in a more stressful/pressured environment for the reward of extra money. no thanks

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeast View Post
    fair enough, but holidays are non-essential as far as i'm concerned.
    Lots of things could be considered non-essential. I take it then that you're happy to live under the open stars (a roof isn't an essential after all), walk to work (cars aren't essential), not read books or watch films (non-essential and therefore can't be justified), eat minimally and only for nutrition (spending money on nice food is non-essential, dietary needs are) and so on.

    If, on the other hand, you do have non-essential things then complaining about someone taking a holiday is a little hypocritical, don't you think?

    my job isn't always the best for my personal happiness but it's pretty low stress and close to home, there are other jobs i'd probably prefer to do but when people mention leaving to me, it's usually to do IT in a more stressful/pressured environment for the reward of extra money. no thanks
    I've yet to find an environment as stressful and pressured as any of the schools I've worked in. More challenging, yes, and requiring me to stretch myself more, but not as stressful or pressured.

  6. #36


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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    Lots of things could be considered non-essential. I take it then that you're happy to live under the open stars (a roof isn't an essential after all), walk to work (cars aren't essential), not read books or watch films (non-essential and therefore can't be justified), eat minimally and only for nutrition (spending money on nice food is non-essential, dietary needs are) and so on.

    If, on the other hand, you do have non-essential things then complaining about someone taking a holiday is a little hypocritical, don't you think?

    <Snip>
    Completely agree with this. Wasn't the point being made that it was a acceptable minimum standard of living? This included some non essential items in some people's view....the point made that a computer and internet access was now deemed a requirement of a minimum standard? Or did I misread that?

    You can go on holiday for a lot cheaper than numerous other things, but it's all about priorities and what is important to you.

  7. #37

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    I guess what i'm trying to say is people can easily do without holidays if their pay grade doesn't allow them.

    All this comes from hearing teachers saying 'it's outragious' and 'i can't live on that' when refused pay rises a year or two back, when quite clearly a happy existance can easily be had on less than they're earning.

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    No they cant. Taking a holiday doesn't always mean spending thousands of pounds flying round the world or booking into expensive complexes. What I'm talking about is people needing a break from work. You cant work all year round, it's not healthy for you.

    As jamesb has pointed out, there are numerous things we all buy because we like to have them. I am going on holiday this summer and will continue to look at holidays for the forseable future. I dont spend much on this and I save up in order to be able to do it. What I believe we should be looking at, is how much you need to earn before you improve your lifestyle? For me the biggest difference would be to get my own house. At the moment I just dont see that I am going to do it due to the cost of living(I could afford to pay a mortgage, I just cant afford a deposit) Saving a few hundred pounds on a holiday isn't going to get me a deposit.

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    Holidays are a bit of a dodgy subject, I think we should all be entitled to one but I'm not sure about the compelling need that some people feel to go abroad for one. Personally, I can't justify the money spent on a holiday because it would just be me with my own thoughts walking round location X - I also imagine that it'd be a bit of a grim and boring affair going on holiday alone as after all, it's not where you are but who you are with that makes it (yes, I need some more friends, lol).

    I think at the end of the day, it all comes down to personal preference on what makes us all happy. I'm still on the hunt for a place where I enjoy my job (pay doesn't really matter too much as long as it's relevant to the job which I'm doing) and where I am able to meet and be friends with decent people.

  10. #40

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    I haven't really been on 'holiday' as such for years and years, but I do goto music festivals - to me that's a sort of holiday as it's doing something I enjoy, and I do go and see friends I have that live in far off corners of this country fairly often, which are mini holidays in their own right.

    I can understand why people want to go abroad and spend 1000's on a holiday as there are some fantastic places to visit abroad, and if you've got the money to then great. What I don't understand are those people who pay for the whole thing on a credit card, then struggle to pay it back - same thing with those people who spend 1000's at christmas on credit then struggle to pay it back - why put yourself through that, if you can't afford it then don't do it - simples!

    Mike.
    Last edited by maniac; 6th July 2010 at 04:48 PM.

  11. #41

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    Taking a holiday doesn't always mean spending thousands of pounds flying round the world or booking into expensive complexes. What I'm talking about is people needing a break from work. You cant work all year round, it's not healthy for you.
    In a little over 2 weeks time, me and the missu will take our son on holiday.

    We are having a week in Cornwall, in our tent, on a campsite.

    We do this because we cannot afford to go abroad, this year. We couldn't last year either. But we will in future, as things improve.

    We've been to Italy, all-inc and Cape Verde, all-inc as well as 3 weeks in Oz and NZ, but that was 3 years ago, at least! We love going abroad, but there are times when you need to be a bit clever, and look at what's happening. A week ANYWHERE that's not work is better than a week at work......And I LOVE my job!!!!

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    Lucky you, I actually envy a little!

    I bought all furniture and goods from previous owner for a good price.

    In 2 years, I've had to replace 2 microwaves, 2 TV's, a kettle, 3 iron's, also now got trouble with my fridge and washing machine, and a sofa and a sofabed in need of replacement, new wardrobes required, i've had the house rewired already, need to have the guttering and facia boards replaced (asbestos sucks), and all my main water piping requires replacing (all the stop tap valves are locked open, and a couple of them leak)

    So the 2k of savings i've currently got will pay for maybe 1-2 of what I need to fix/replace!
    If you have got a van I've a nice set of pine wardrobes with a top box, a 6 draw pine chest and a dressing table you can have for 350

    GJE

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerospacemango View Post
    In a little over 2 weeks time, me and the missu will take our son on holiday.

    We are having a week in Cornwall, in our tent, on a campsite.

    We do this because we cannot afford to go abroad, this year. We couldn't last year either. But we will in future, as things improve.

    We've been to Italy, all-inc and Cape Verde, all-inc as well as 3 weeks in Oz and NZ, but that was 3 years ago, at least! We love going abroad, but there are times when you need to be a bit clever, and look at what's happening. A week ANYWHERE that's not work is better than a week at work......And I LOVE my job!!!!
    ...and do you know what aerospacemango - your son will be better off for it - spending time with his parents in the open air. I have no kids, but do have a caravan which we trundle around the UK in. We haven't taken it abroad yet but are going to ST David's this year and have been a few weekends. Not expensive sites.

    YOu cannot beat camping/caravaning and open air.

    Gareth

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    I want/need a holiday this year. A wedding last year, changing jobs, and I study a degree in my spare time/evenings.

    But at this time I don't know if I'll be abroad or in england. I can get a all inclusive holiday in august for 5-600 each abroad, or I can go somewhere in this country, where I have to drive, and will cost me the same amount of money, in fact possibly more once you include food and other things.

    If I didn't go on holiday, me and/or the wife would eventually become run down. Everyone needs to get away from time to time, even if it's a weekend, a week, or a 3 week trip abroad. It depends on what you enjoy. If you don't do the 2 week summer holiday abroad then good for you, but many of us want one. Also is the difference between those who work full time and term time only.
    I earn less than my industry counterparts, work less than them, but have no choice on my holidays, which cost me 2-5 times as much as I have to go when some other businessman has decided he wants more money.

    Though I know some won't agree with me on this, If my work was only enough to allow me to pay the bills and keep me fed, then I frankly wouldn't work at all. Why bother? I work so that I can enjoy life, not just plod along in it. I could earn more money, but I'd be working more and more stressed in the work I do, so unless it's a LOT more money, I don't see it as worth it. It's bad enough when I'm studying, that in the 7 months I was studying, I went out just 3 times. Why do it? Because I enjoy what I study, and know that for a few years hard work now will pay off in the end, meaning I can go for that better job for more money, or I can apply for that pay rise; i've earned it.

    There are people who only just earn enough to get by, and there are many like those who work in schools who are happy with what they earn. But rarely are those two the same thing, and anyone that claims to be, I would bet would take an offer on a higher paid job if it came up.
    I don't earn a lot, and I regularly turn down work offered; I don't fancy driving 3+ hours a day extra for a few thousand extra a year. I'd not be around enough to enjoy it.

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    i guess there's a downside to all this living frugally. The effect it can have on aggregate demand....will none of you spendthrifts think of the german exporters!!! ;0)

    but seriously, the point this article seems to be making is about incomes. And it is about not enough in the way of income, as much as people can and do cut out discretionary spending. I remeber seeing a chart for an OECD country that shows productivity increases over the last few years vs increases in wages. Let's just say that from what i recall the lines diverge. So where have all these productivity benefits gone ?
    We have a NMW which isn't high enough, we have long working weeks, and the income inequalities manifest in increased indebtedness at the lower end of the income scale.

    Plus there's the issue of income inequalities, and what govts. are doing to address that issue. It may be that in some countries you do have a high cost of living in some aspects, but those countries might have a significantly more progressive tax regimen than ourselves meaning less inequality, plus spending on public services which could themselves reduce the cost of living burden. I might use the car a lot less if we had a much better public transport infrastructure which was truly integrated.

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