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General Chat Thread, Public sector pensions facing 'reform' aka. 'the chop' in General; As a pension scheme with my 17 years paid into the Post Office Pension Scheme (which I thought was a ...
  1. #16

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    As a pension scheme with my 17 years paid into the Post Office Pension Scheme (which I thought was a great scheme), I will have achieved the equivilent in 6 years in my school pension scheme

  2. #17

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rydra View Post
    A teacher working for a private school will earn considerably more than they will working for a public state school as well.
    Absolute rubbish!

    Sorry you've annoyed me!

    Teachers here follow the same payscales as teachers in state schools and don't earn more. Compared to the support staff they get a good deal, because they're in the teacher's pension scheme and benefit from the national pay rounds - we don't.

    If we appear to get paid more, just think of the hours. Our schools are generally open to children from dawn til dusk and many of us are open at weekends too... private schools get their pound of flesh from their staff.

    Very few private schools have the wealthy backgrounds of Eton, Harrow & Westminstrer.

    Most private schools are smaller concerns like us. They absolutely DO NOT have cash to splash around.

    On top of the reducing fee income due to the recession, we also have to pay VAT on all our purchases making everything we buy 17.5% more expensive than what state schools buy AND we don't have the benefit of LA bulk purchase.

  3. #18

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    I also get extremely annoyed by this rhetoric. The media seem to believe that public sector workers get gold plated pensions at other people's expense, but there are a number of subtle issues around this which are lost on the average Daily Mail Hack with a political agenda. Whilst some top end public sector chief exec type pensions are ridiculous, and these get highlighted in the media as a general example, this is also true in the private sector, and most people in the public sector get small pensions because they are part time or only have a limited number of contribution years. There is also a distinction between the various local government schemes, which I suspect most of us are in, which are backed by an investment fund, and the NHS, Teachers, Fire Service (and others) schemes which are Pay as You Go - in other words, if the amount coming in from curent employees does not match the amount being paid out to retired members, the shortfall has to be funded from general taxation. Historically, this was a net benefit to the government as most people who paid into the schemes died before they got their money back, but these days people are living too long and buggering up the arithmetic.

    Whilst the LG schemes backed by a fund may have a long term structural problem which they need to address, the outgoings are not paid from Central Governent funds, so the real issue is with the Pay as you Go schemes, as cutting them would be a direct saving for the Government.

  4. #19

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    I recently saw a job description for a post at a private school where it was stipulated that the network had to be supported 24/7, 365 days a year. As I work in the state sector I don't know if this is the norm, but wouldn't be surprised.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyturpie View Post
    I would disagree with the on par or better, but the margin is getting smaller. Just look at IT recruitment websites and you can still see a 5-7k difference in some roles. But that maybe down to the individual company wanting to take someone on and look to retain rather than keep having to re advertise and re interview at extra cost when people take flight
    Well I'm basing my opinion on recent job adverts, and in terms of qualifications required for the job, in return for a decent salary, the public sector get a far better deal. Perhaps that's more of a problem with HR in the private sector asking for every skill set under the sun and offering peanuts in return. Most jobs in Education IT support seem to be happy if you are "working towards" an MCSE etc. Well, you could argue that having an MCP is working towards an MCSE. (Yes, that's quite a large generalisation, but it seems very common)

    I'm aware there are many that contribute to Edugeek that are on very low salaries, but I'm also aware of the same in the private sector, and the conditions are stress seem far worse there. Of course, there are always exceptions, as described by Rydra.

    From personal experience and speaking with colleagues that have left public sector employment to go in to the private sector and Vice versa, the consensus is that we have it damn good in the Public sector, pension or not.

    Like Sandeep2504, I too am seriously considering stopping payment into the LGPS, as I do not believe my those under 50, are going to get anywhere near as good a return as my parents generation, that are due to retire within the next couple of years. The majority of colleagues under 30, do not contribute to the LGPS, so as it stands, I am at the bottom of the giant Pyramid scheme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    Absolute rubbish!

    Sorry you've annoyed me!

    Teachers here follow the same payscales as teachers in state schools and don't earn more. Compared to the support staff they get a good deal, because they're in the teacher's pension scheme and benefit from the national pay rounds - we don't.

    If we appear to get paid more, just think of the hours. Our schools are generally open to children from dawn til dusk and many of us are open at weekends too... private schools get their pound of flesh from their staff.

    Very few private schools have the wealthy backgrounds of Eton, Harrow & Westminstrer.

    Most private schools are smaller concerns like us. They absolutely DO NOT have cash to splash around.

    On top of the reducing fee income due to the recession, we also have to pay VAT on all our purchases making everything we buy 17.5% more expensive than what state schools buy AND we don't have the benefit of LA bulk purchase.
    If this is the case then I honestly apologise, but the few private schools i've known, and the few teachers i've known (about 3 or 4) that have moved from public to these private schools, all of them increased salary by up to 40% or so over what they earnt before. I admit to working in east england, where we have a number of well established private schools with high reputations, so maybe I have a limited viewpoint on this one. Hertfordshire is well known for some nice private schools, and I have London not too far away as well. I can see your viewpoint on the smaller private schools though, and stand corrected on the basis of what you say.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by AyatollahPies View Post
    I'm sorry, but these days public sector pay is on a par, or better than the equivalent in the private sector, especially in IT Support.

    However, I agree that just because the private sector pensions have been destroyed, that is no reason to turn on those in the public sector.
    Not true. I have seen helpdesk jobs going for more than I get paid here as a network manager. Someone with equal responsibility as I have seems to get a good £10k more in private industry.

  8. #23

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Not true. I have seen helpdesk jobs going for more than I get paid here as a network manager. Someone with equal responsibility as I have seems to get a good £10k more in private industry.
    I think there's a confusion between private sector as in "Private Schools" and private sector as in "non school businesses"

    I agree that jobs in the private sector (rather than private schools) are better paid - jobs in private schools are not necessarily so.

    If you take the case of a job at a local private school that was posted on the edugeek jobs board a few weeks ago. The salary of £25k looked good for what they wanted until you realised that they wanted you to work Saturday mornings and Sunday afternoons!



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