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General Chat Thread, Which 'front end'? in General; I certainly don't need comments like Grommits, who implies that all those who work with CC3 are somehow inferior It ...
  1. #31

    Geoff's Avatar
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    I certainly don't need comments like Grommits, who implies that all those who work with CC3 are somehow inferior
    It was a valid point. If you don't have a vanilla network several aspects of a Windows Domain environment are hidden from you. Thus you never learn about them. This will put you at a disadvantage when you attempt to move on to greener pastures.

  2. #32

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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    Have u looked at Viglen Classlink.......

    Just a thought, an alternative to CC3 and Ranger

  3. #33

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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    I know that things are hidden from you if you have a 'front end' as that is my problem - I have Schoolcare systems. That is why I couldnt be confident of setting up a vanilla network on my own.
    Maybe it was valid point , but not in the way it was put, which was to say that you could ONLY work with RM if you had a CC3 network because you would know nothing else, which was a bit hard, I thought.

    Just having a bad day I suppose.

  4. #34
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Essentially a CC3 network is just vanilla with additional RM tools, just like Ranger and NSM. Neither does CC3 make you "dumb down" your skillset - you can dive into native 2K/2K3/XP whenever you like.
    Not really.. because if you do not have the ADMIN rights to CC3 you can do nothing and everything is locked down as CC3

    Why spend thousands and thousands of pounds to use CC3 but then use GPO's.. ?!?! you won't because CC3 will control your Network

    Quote Originally Posted by webman

    I've seen a Ranger network and use one on a weekly basis and it doesn't work anywhere near as good as our CC3. Just an observation - perhaps not all Ranger networks are as bad.
    As I said CC3 controls your network where as Ranger is a "Front End" and not as smothering...

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Great Smile

    I'm just glad we don't suffer from issues like this, this, this or this or countless other "vanilla" issues that Edugeekers have posted over the past year, that CC3 takes care of by default or offers a simple way of doing it
    As said above.. all you are with CC3 is a Technician.. CC3 does everything for you you learn and do nothing.. just babysit CC3.....

    Bet you use WebMail as well

    Quote Originally Posted by WITCH
    I certainly don't need comments like Grommits, who implies that all those who work with CC3 are somehow inferior
    Sorry that you feel that way... But RM is on of the most despised ICT Companies in the UK... They take all the Skill and Professionalism out of being a Network Manger.

    I am a CCNP, MCSA and MCSE certified and can run, configure, expand my skill set and maintain a Network.. but with CC3 all I can do is Molly Coddle....

    But maybe CC3 is a good thing as it seems 80% of the Schools will be CC3 with the BSF rollout...

  5. #35
    Chafftech's Avatar
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit
    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Essentially a CC3 network is just vanilla with additional RM tools, just like Ranger and NSM. Neither does CC3 make you "dumb down" your skillset - you can dive into native 2K/2K3/XP whenever you like.
    Not really.. because if you do not have the ADMIN rights to CC3 you can do nothing and everything is locked down as CC3

    Why spend thousands and thousands of pounds to use CC3 but then use GPO's.. ?!?! you won't because CC3 will control your Network

    Quote Originally Posted by webman

    I've seen a Ranger network and use one on a weekly basis and it doesn't work anywhere near as good as our CC3. Just an observation - perhaps not all Ranger networks are as bad.
    As I said CC3 controls your network where as Ranger is a "Front End" and not as smothering...

    Quote Originally Posted by webman
    Great Smile

    I'm just glad we don't suffer from issues like this, this, this or this or countless other "vanilla" issues that Edugeekers have posted over the past year, that CC3 takes care of by default or offers a simple way of doing it
    As said above.. all you are with CC3 is a Technician.. CC3 does everything for you you learn and do nothing.. just babysit CC3.....

    Bet you use WebMail as well

    Quote Originally Posted by WITCH
    I certainly don't need comments like Grommits, who implies that all those who work with CC3 are somehow inferior
    Sorry that you feel that way... But RM is on of the most despised ICT Companies in the UK... They take all the Skill and Professionalism out of being a Network Manger.

    I am a CCNP, MCSA and MCSE certified and can run, configure, expand my skill set and maintain a Network.. but with CC3 all I can do is Molly Coddle....

    But maybe CC3 is a good thing as it seems 80% of the Schools will be CC3 with the BSF rollout...

    Sorry mate, you need to sort yourself out. Just because YOU dont like does not mean others can not like it. So stop screaming abuse at people just because you want to stop the whole world from using RM. Basically grow up.

    BTW dropping in your qualification means jack. Lots of people have just as many letters after their name and dont feel the need to boast. Some of them also use CC3.

    If you cannot stick to the topic then I think you should be removed from this forum.


    @Witch

    Which front end you choose comes down price and usability - what type of school are you in? If you are in primary I am not 100% with CC3 in that environment.

  6. #36

    webman's Avatar
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    I don't agree with you Grommit. This isn't the thread to boast about how certified you are and the differences between running a CC3 network or vanilla.

  7. #37
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    what about CSE's network toolkit, you can buy modules such as the workspace explorer, (front end)
    application manager (deploy applications)
    station manager (remotely monitor clients, it also logs everything the pupils do on the workstation, even if they have used usb apps, what words they typed into google etc)
    Not bad on the pricing either.

  8. #38
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    Can we please all calm down or I am going to have to start editing/deleting posts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the content of this topic is starting to get a little personal. Please calm it down a bit.
    The original question was what third party front end would suit this scenario and there has been some useful input if you look inbetween all the usual hangbags at 10 paces of 'RM vs Vanilla vs Ranger Vs Viglen'
    Not everyone is a fan of all these systems, but you are taking this topic somewhere where it should not be going!
    So stop shouting at each other and save that for the pupils

  9. #39

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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    Personally I would still say CC3 ... LNM is not robust enough (wrt still be developed or bug fixes) and is lacking documentation and support.

    Ranger still has a few issues for me. I have not had a chance to see it this week so far, but everytime I have seen a demo of Rollout it has not worked. I know it can work but this is just something that makes me worry.

    I can remember being given it to trial in W98 era with the promise of "You'll never break into a machine running it" only to kill it within 5 minutes ... a snip compared to the 15 seconds it took another lad.

    CSE just ahs way too many issues that are outstanding and not yet fixed.

    Classlink also has been nasty and buggy when seeing it demonstrated in schools.

    And for all of the above ... except LNM ... none of them 'sit on top' of the AD ... the extend the schema and makes changes so they work a certain way. *ALL* of them.

  10. #40
    meastaugh1's Avatar
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit
    Not really.. because if you do not have the ADMIN rights to CC3 you can do nothing and everything is locked down as CC3

    Why spend thousands and thousands of pounds to use CC3 but then use GPO's.. ?!?! you won't because CC3 will control your Network
    Presumably you're referring to the end-user experience? If so, there are a set of preconfigured user type GPOs, but you can configure your own to be as unrestricted as required. From a security perspective, surely it's better to start with everything locked down, then unrestrict/unlock what you need, rather than the other way around?

    As others have said, you can use the vanilla tools for controlling Microsoft functionality.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    And for all of the above ... except LNM ... none of them 'sit on top' of the AD ... the extend the schema and makes changes so they work a certain way. *ALL* of them.
    Out of interest, are you suggesting schema extensions are a good or bad thing? Or just an observation?


    There are some good aspects to C3, and equally features that aren't up to it, especially considering the costs involved (Syncrhonise, Learning Resources, Station Tidy etc).

  11. #41

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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    Quote Originally Posted by meastaugh1
    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook
    And for all of the above ... except LNM ... none of them 'sit on top' of the AD ... the extend the schema and makes changes so they work a certain way. *ALL* of them.
    Out of interest, are you suggesting schema extensions are a good or bad thing? Or just an observation?
    Purely an observation as it is a common misconception that it is only CC3 that extend the schema.

    We should also remember that Exchange extends teh schema .. upgrading to R2 extends the schema ...

    Extending the schema is purely a reference to the fact that software runs that no longer sits on top of the original system ... it changes the system to work as it needs it. For some software this is fine ... for others it can be disastrous (read Kingswood's comments about CSE for an example).

    Most hand-built tools that people create to manage AD do not extend the schema ... and this is what people are used to in a vanilla system with scripting ... but people should be aware that software sometimes needs to change the system to make the system work better or differently (hence the example of exchange and R2)

  12. #42
    simongrahamuk's Avatar
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    Ultimately guy's it doesnt matter which one you end up using. If it meets your needs, does the job, and makes your network work smoothly then they have served their purpose.

    The way I look at it is like this:

    Vanilla - You need to know what you are doing to get it running the way that you want.

    Ranger - Makes life a lot easier than simply running a Vanilla system. You can remove it at any time and go vanilla if/when you feel you want to.

    RM - Does exactly what Ranger does, but costs more as it comes with more features by default (Print Manager, etc are Add ons for Ranger). I'm not sure how easy it is to go vanilla afterwards it is though.

    They are all tools and should be looked at as such. Your job is to manage the network and make sure it works, not worry about who's system is best!

  13. #43
    Joedetic's Avatar
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    I think simongrahamuk has hit the nail on the head there!

    As ICT technicians / network managers / support staff or whatever your job title is, at the end of the day you're there to make the system run smoothly by whatever means necessary.

    It doesnt matter whether or not you are CCNA, CCNP, MCSE, MCSA, BEng, BSc or BA!!!!

    You're presented with a job...do it reliably, and if you want to use CC3 or Ranger or ClassLink to do so, then good! You've found your solution.

    If possible visit some people and see how their network runs using these management systems...ask whether they're able to demo it for you a little.

    (Sorry if i've said something someone else has already said...insomnia meant i didnt get any sleep so that'd be what i'm blaming it on)

  14. #44

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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    Chafftech - it is a first school Reception to Year 4

    I would love to be Network Manager but I'm afraid that sort of title doesn't really exist down here in the first/infant/part-time world. I'm just the technician who knows a bit more than anyone else about the computers!

    Mind you - as I am the only tech here, I could call myself anything I like and post a list of my qualifications on the door, couldn't I?
    (beginners swimming certificate, Grade 8 French Horn, etc)

  15. #45
    Joedetic's Avatar
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    Re: Which 'front end'?

    I always wanted to try french horn...i could never get the ambeture (sp?) wight so i just had to stick with euphonium

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