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General Chat Thread, New Speed Cameras in General; Originally Posted by mossj Only reason to have issue with nationwide speed cameras is if you are planning on breaking ...
  1. #31

    teejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossj View Post
    Only reason to have issue with nationwide speed cameras is if you are planning on breaking the law.
    Well, apart from them being used as a national surveillance database by using the NPR to store all car movements in another government database, then no. /Tin foil hat mode off

  2. #32

    sippo's Avatar
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    All speed camera's are used to make money. Since the camera's have been removed here in Swindon, accident levels have actually dropped.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin View Post
    As the road has a system of streetlights, "the law" says that they cannot install 30mph repeaters, but neither did they install any other signs saying "new speed limit in force". Of course all the (many) GATSOs were re-calibrated to the lower limit to enforce "the law".
    There is nothing stopping the speed limit being shown on speed camera signs. There are several showing 30 near me. In fact, this should be mandatory in my opinion, if the Government wants to prove that the cameras are about slowing people down rather than collecting revenue.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveBentley View Post
    There is nothing stopping the speed limit being shown on speed camera signs. There are several showing 30 near me. In fact, this should be mandatory in my opinion, if the Government wants to prove that the cameras are about slowing people down rather than collecting revenue.
    I know that, you know that, the council knows that - but they didn't install any such signs, and as a consequence lots of people got points and a penalty because they were unaware of the new limit!!

    I also think that it should be mandatory to put a speed limit sign on the back of every speed camera, so that you can be absolutely sure what the limit is.

    mb

  5. #35

    CHR1S's Avatar
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    I have no issues with upholding the law, I have a problem with cold rigid your either speeding or not! No other crime is judged on a ridgid guilty not guilty base. If I am driving 40 ish mph (I say ish because every speedo is different) and I have to overtake a lorry tootling along at 20 mph, I accelerate to 50 mph to make the pass quicker and safer but now my average speed is lets say 44 mph. Im now a criminal and should I be punished accordingly?

  6. #36

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    No other crime is judged on a ridgid guilty not guilty base. If I am driving 40 ish mph (I say ish because every speedo is different) and I have to overtake a lorry tootling along at 20 mph, I accelerate to 50 mph to make the pass quicker and safer but now my average speed is lets say 44 mph. Im now a criminal and should I be punished accordingly?
    As with all cases in the UK justice system, you have the right of appeal.

    Also, just to point out - there are many laws which are judged in a 'guilty/not guilty' way. Pretty much all by-laws for example. Not filing taxes on time, when you're a business. There's loads of them. They all come with the right of appeal.

  7. #37
    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    As with all cases in the UK justice system, you have the right of appeal.

    Also, just to point out - there are many laws which are judged in a 'guilty/not guilty' way. Pretty much all by-laws for example. Not filing taxes on time, when you're a business. There's loads of them. They all come with the right of appeal.
    And, as I understand it, current legislation will now not award you costs if you do appeal and win. So, get a ticket and either pay the fine and shut up, or appeal, spend a few hundred proving you were in actual fact innocent, and take the hit out of your bank balance.

    Seems a fair and just legal system to me...

  8. #38

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theeldergeek View Post
    And, as I understand it, current legislation will now not award you costs if you do appeal and win. So, get a ticket and either pay the fine and shut up, or appeal, spend a few hundred proving you were in actual fact innocent, and take the hit out of your bank balance.

    Seems a fair and just legal system to me...
    I think you'd be wrong on that. If you are entitled to legal aid, it would also cover something like this as far as I know, as it would be brought before a magistrates court, just like any other low level crime.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    As with all cases in the UK justice system, you have the right of appeal.

    Also, just to point out - there are many laws which are judged in a 'guilty/not guilty' way. Pretty much all by-laws for example. Not filing taxes on time, when you're a business. There's loads of them. They all come with the right of appeal.
    Ok, my point was badly made but you get the jist right? Its cold hard and just makes you think god sake im just a sheep now with no free will! If I choose to speed its a risk I take and I sould be punished, but I dont wish to have a fine drop through my letterbox for exceeding the average speed limit for the day by 4mph!

  10. #40
    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I think you'd be wrong on that. If you are entitled to legal aid, it would also cover something like this as far as I know, as it would be brought before a magistrates court, just like any other low level crime.
    RE: 'Not Guilty' Motorists Face Court Costs

    I'm not sure if it is legislation yet, I don't have time to check, but I recall there being a No 10 petition against it, which was rejected.
    Of course, if Legal Aid was introduced into the equation, then that is an entirely different matter altogether. I wasn't considering this aspect in my reply.

    As I understand it, if you successfully defend yourself in court, you can be awarded costs but only up to what you would have received under the Legal Aid scheme.

    Cite : http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/CostsRecovery/
    "If a defendant wishes to clear their name, they often have to take their case to the Crown Court. This can be an expensive process for which legal aid is unavailable so many will not embark upon this route with the knowledge that even when they win their appeal, they will lose the majority of the legal fees they spend in the process"
    Last edited by theeldergeek; 26th April 2010 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Updated information

  11. #41

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    Ok, my point was badly made but you get the jist right? Its cold hard and just makes you think god sake im just a sheep now with no free will! If I choose to speed its a risk I take and I sould be punished, but I dont wish to have a fine drop through my letterbox for exceeding the average speed limit for the day by 4mph!
    4mph would be within the tolerances allowed by most areas AFAIK. Usually it is +10% + 2mph in most areas, so in a 30 zone, you can go 34MPH without being slapped, but 35 will nobble you. And really, being that far outside a speed limit is not acceptable to most people.

  12. #42
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    We have many speed cameras on the A556. Some I can understand. But some, well (to the best of my knowledge) in the last 20 years, there has never been an accident! So what are they there for?
    And before some one says to enforce the speed limit yes but they always say that (and i think government guidelines state ) cameras are only supposed to be on 'black spots'.
    Also a road off the A556 that goes down the side of a primary school. No accidents in 20 years(thats how long we have lived here). That was until they put speed bumps on the road. Now there have been three accidents in the last three years.
    So how has this made things safer??
    Alan

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    4mph would be within the tolerances allowed by most areas AFAIK. Usually it is +10% + 2mph in most areas, so in a 30 zone, you can go 34MPH without being slapped, but 35 will nobble you. And really, being that far outside a speed limit is not acceptable to most people.
    Rubbish, if you spend that much time monitoring your exact speed then your not paying enough attention to the road! This is my exact point, I predict a massive increase in accidents where people are too busy making sure they dont go over the speed limit on fear of death from the tax collectors....erm police!

  14. #44

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    Rubbish, if you spend that much time monitoring your exact speed then your not paying enough attention to the road! This is my exact point, I predict a massive increase in accidents where people are too busy making sure they dont go over the speed limit on fear of death from the tax collectors....erm police!
    So you think it is ok to go 35mph in a 30 zone? Or 46 in a 40 zone? Knowing that an extra 5mph can be the difference between a pedestrian living and dying if hit? If you can't control your speed effectively, you shouldn't be driving...

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    So you think it is ok to go 35mph in a 30 zone? Or 46 in a 40 zone? Knowing that an extra 5mph can be the difference between a pedestrian living and dying if hit? If you can't control your speed effectively, you shouldn't be driving...
    And having poor concentration in a 30mph school zone is any better? Im not going to get into this argument where we just keep repeating ourselves, I just dont see speeding as the main reason behind road accidents there are other factors involved too.

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