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General Chat Thread, We're All Going To Die in General; I'm going to bed - need some beauty sleep....
  1. #16

    mattx's Avatar
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    I'm going to bed - need some beauty sleep.

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    "we're all going to die" - yes - that inevitable seeing as we were born.

  3. #18

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    Hmm its a tough call, do we risk 1000s of lives or millions of pounds and several thousand jobs? Or worse both!
    I suppose we will see this play out over the next few days!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-GM View Post
    Im not disagreeing with you. I think its a big risk. I think that if there is any risk at all that it shouldn't be done.
    Sorry, but that's utter b*ll*cks!!!

    There is *always* risk - I'm about to go outside; I could trip on the step, get knocked down by the bus, get stuck in the lift (it won't let me out on level 6 any longer!!) and so on. I'm afraid people saying "if there is any risk at all" either don't speak English (and apologies if English isn't your first language!) or simply have no clue about what "risk" means!!!

  5. #20

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    I think they should let all those passengers who are complaining about not being able to fly and the airlines not doing enough, fly first - 1, it gets the whingers off the telly who don't seem to comprehend that an airline can't stop a volcano going off, and 2, if anyone is going to die in a plane crash (and I wouldn't actually wish it on anyone!!) I'd rather it wasn't people who have been understanding and patiently waiting!

  6. #21

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    The thing is, flying through the ash is a proven danger - 1982, a BA plane had its engines fail at 36k feet due to ash, 1989, a KLM plane had $80m of damage done to it due to ash, and this time around the Finnish air force had several F-18s damaged by it and all the engines have now had to be sent to be repaired, a NATO F-16 has also been damaged.

    Add in the fact that not only does the ash damage engines, but can 'sandblast' the windscreens, interfere with RF signals due to it being heavily charged, and can clog sensors on the outside of the plane.

    It seems a little irresponsible to be flying through it. How long until the airlines start demanding compensation for damaged planes?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    The thing is, flying through the ash is a proven danger - 1982, a BA plane had its engines fail at 36k feet due to ash, 1989, a KLM plane had $80m of damage done to it due to ash, and this time around the Finnish air force had several F-18s damaged by it and all the engines have now had to be sent to be repaired, a NATO F-16 has also been damaged.

    Add in the fact that not only does the ash damage engines, but can 'sandblast' the windscreens, interfere with RF signals due to it being heavily charged, and can clog sensors on the outside of the plane.

    It seems a little irresponsible to be flying through it. How long until the airlines start demanding compensation for damaged planes?
    Agreed. And you can't win either way since the airlines are already lobbying for compensation for being grounded in the first place. I'd rather they got that than planes start falling out of the sky to appease irate passengers who don't know what they're talking about and company directors that want the cash...

  8. #23
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    I have two boys that are waiting to fly back, I think I will wait on the booking.

    The reason the ash is so bad for the engines is that it melts in the combustion chamber and sticks to everything past where the fuel burns. As for if the crud breaks off at a lower altitude, the forces involved in an unbalanced turbine spinning at 10,000 RPM are pretty extreme, even if them are in the latter smaller radius blades at the back of the engine.

    Also trying to run anything at 10K through the ash is going to have the same effect as sandblasting it.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    There is *always* risk - I'm about to go outside; I could trip on the step, get knocked down by the bus, get stuck in the lift (it won't let me out on level 6 any longer!!) and so on. I'm afraid people saying "if there is any risk at all" either don't speak English (and apologies if English isn't your first language!) or simply have no clue about what "risk" means!!!
    FAIL!

    Erm - perhaps you should also check up the meaning of risk, because what you listed are 'hazards'! Risk is the LIKLIHOOD of a hazard occurring.

    i.e. Because I'm a clumsy sod there is more chance (risk) of me slipping on that step (hazard).

  10. 3 Thanks to Hightower:

    Corky (21st April 2010), FN-GM (21st April 2010), ICT_GUY (21st April 2010)

  11. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    Sorry, but that's utter b*ll*cks!!!

    There is *always* risk - I'm about to go outside; I could trip on the step, get knocked down by the bus, get stuck in the lift (it won't let me out on level 6 any longer!!) and so on. I'm afraid people saying "if there is any risk at all" either don't speak English (and apologies if English isn't your first language!) or simply have no clue about what "risk" means!!!
    10% risk of something going wrong with the aircraft is a big risk. There is always a risk but why would you make the risk even bigger.

    So 1 in every 10 planes is at risk of something going wrong becuase of the ash? Would you be ok with that? If the ash was not there, there wouldn't be this 10% risk

    Read this - BA Flight 9 & KLM 867 - Luckly the plane landed safe that time.

    Its peoples lives at stake!
    Last edited by FN-GM; 21st April 2010 at 08:54 AM.

  12. #26

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    Personally, if I had a flight out in the next few days, I wouldnt be flying...just not worth it to me

  13. #27

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    Put it this way - if it is 10% risk, I saw a figure of around 60,000 flights cancelled in total over this grounding. Now, if the average passenger count on each is, say, 100 (there are more small planes than large), that's about 6million people. You'd've been ok with 600k people being put at risk?

  14. #28

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    When a plane crashes they'll just say it was the wrong type of ash.

  15. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Put it this way - if it is 10% risk, I saw a figure of around 60,000 flights cancelled in total over this grounding. Now, if the average passenger count on each is, say, 100 (there are more small planes than large), that's about 6million people. You'd've been ok with 600k people being put at risk?
    Even on a 1% risk, that's still 60 k people. That's enough to depopulate a small town.

    Regardless though, in a case like this the benefits should outweigh the risks. Convenience never outweighs death. A bigger issue would be things like medical transports or aid shipments by air, where lives may depend on the flight. Those are the only ones that I can think of which would be potentially justified.

  16. #30

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    I'd personally be just as worried about the long term damage to the engines etc. Even if they do make it through this time, surely all the damage, however small, is going to reduce the lifespan of the engines?

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