Poll: Who will you vote for?

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General Chat Thread, Who Will The Geeks Vote For In The General Election in General; I think it will be Lib Dem from me this time, always voted labour before, but there last term has ...
  1. #61
    Quackers's Avatar
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    I think it will be Lib Dem from me this time, always voted labour before, but there last term has been bad, and i think they are losing the plot now. No way on earth am i voting Tory, i do have some standards, they are twice as bad when it comes to taxes, remember their 80's run VAT went from 3% to 8%, then 8% to 15%, then John Major in the 90's put it up to 17.5%. I just hope many others vote Lib Dem too, as you get a bit sick of it always being between Labour and Tory.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    I think it will be Lib Dem from me this time, always voted labour before, but there last term has been bad, and i think they are losing the plot now. No way on earth am i voting Tory, i do have some standards, they are twice as bad when it comes to taxes, remember their 80's run VAT went from 3% to 8%, then 8% to 15%, then John Major in the 90's put it up to 17.5%. I just hope many others vote Lib Dem too, as you get a bit sick of it always being between Labour and Tory.
    These VAT rises were mainly down to EU legislation which specifies a minimum rate of 15%.

  3. #63

    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    I think it will be Lib Dem from me this time, always voted labour before, but there last term has been bad, and i think they are losing the plot now. No way on earth am i voting Tory, i do have some standards, they are twice as bad when it comes to taxes, remember their 80's run VAT went from 3% to 8%, then 8% to 15%, then John Major in the 90's put it up to 17.5%. I just hope many others vote Lib Dem too, as you get a bit sick of it always being between Labour and Tory.
    Not Quite true. I've done a little looking up on this and:

    Iin '79 when Maggie came to power VAT was already at 12.5% and then it was raised to 15% to offset the Income Tax cuts. It wasn't until '91 when it was raised to 17.5%, supposedly to offset Community Charge Relief (i.e. reduce 'poll tax' bills, but increase tax for everyone across the board).

    Although VAT was originally brought in as a tax on luxury items, there was also a goods and services tax of 8% in '79, 5% was the EEC minimum VAT rate, but the UK had a zero rate exemption for certain items (books, domestic fuel, etc).

  4. #64

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    How can you tell them apart from the colour of the ties?


    The opposition acts like the opposition until they get voted in. Political metronome.

  5. #65

    broc's Avatar
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    If the the political 'mood' represented by edugeek voters is anything to go by, My slightly cloudy crystal ball reveals a hung parliament, with Conservatives having more seats than Labour..... perhaps with an all-time lowest percentage share of votes of any party forming a Government......

    The chances of a LibDem led coalition Govt is still a long way off.... the number of seats they would need to gain to achieve this is too great.

  6. #66

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Well, the '12bn savings' by the Tories were exactly as expected - slash IT projects, freezing recruitment, and 'renegotiating contracts'.

    Now, if people don't realise that that means 'job losses' across the IT industry, public sector and support sectors, then they are blind. The IT industry in the UK has already had a very rough couple of years - with 10k workers being laid off a week last year at one point. Do the Tories plan to sit back and wipe out yet another industry?

    They talk of their being 400k people who leave and join the public sector in the UK each year, and say that by not hiring new people to replace them they can save money. Well, yes, not filling posts will save money but it will also damage services. Most of those people moving around jobs will fall within the 'lower paid' ranks of jobs. School TAs, administrative assistants, etc... What will these people do instead? Go on the dole?

    The Tory plan is poorly thought out and will, if they get in, be poorly executed.

  7. #67

    teejay's Avatar
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    At least the Tories are being farely honest by political standards about this, Labour are claiming they'll protect services yet Alistair Darling has said there will be cuts bigger than in the 80's under Thatcher. The reality is that we cannot afford a public sector anywhere near as big as it is at the moment and we never have been able to, Labour have just kept borrowing more and more money even through the good years to pay for something we cannot afford.

  8. #68

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    At least the Tories are being farely honest by political standards about this, Labour are claiming they'll protect services yet Alistair Darling has said there will be cuts bigger than in the 80's under Thatcher. The reality is that we cannot afford a public sector anywhere near as big as it is at the moment and we never have been able to, Labour have just kept borrowing more and more money even through the good years to pay for something we cannot afford.
    The problem is, we can't afford *not* to have a large public sector. There isn't a private sector for them to move to!

  9. #69

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    The public sector provides a significant number of jobs for a large number of relatively low-paid workers, they all still pay taxes, NI, pension contributions, VAT, excise duty. They also consume goods & services provided by the private sector as part of their work...... power, water, accomodation, furniture, PCs, telephones etc etc.

    If you get rid of these jobs & they all start claiming benefits where does that leave us? At least while they are working they are paying their way..... If the public sector cuts spending the private sector will suffer even more than it already has .... that is why the current economic crisis has not been quite as bad as it was forecast to be. The libDems have wised up to this.......

  10. Thanks to broc from:

    localzuk (9th April 2010)

  11. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    Labour have just kept borrowing more and more money even through the good years to pay for something we cannot afford.
    This isn't quite true - National Statistics Online

    Through the late 90s and into the early part of the 2000s Labour paid back debt - it fell from about 42% of GDP to just less than 30%

    In part, that's because GDP went up but it's also because Gordon Brown as chancellor did pay back money which had been borrowed earlier.

    Over the past few years, borrowing has gone up (and dramatically recently) but it doesn't mean we can't afford it. If our economy doesn't recover then perhaps we can't but I'd like to think that it will recover and start growing again (the phrase "green shoots" isn't popular but we did see a tiny amount of growth at the start of this year and many of the other indicators are pointing the right way)

    A government can increase income from tax either by putting up the rate or by having more people working and paying tax - sharing out the load nicely. If GDP goes up (and it almost certainly will) then the debt problem is reduced.

    To me, it's a bit like taking out a mortgage. When you first take it out, it eats up a huge chunk of your income but then time goes by, your income goes up and after 5-10 years the mortgage payments don't seem so bad at all.

  12. #71

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Yet another reason for me not to vote Tory - my local Tory MP, Ian Liddell-Grainger, both didn't bother to reply to my last letter to him outlining my complaints about the Digital Economy Bill, but also didn't even bother to turn up to vote on it.

  13. #72

    FN-GM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Well, the '12bn savings' by the Tories were exactly as expected - slash IT projects, freezing recruitment, and 'renegotiating contracts'.

    Now, if people don't realise that that means 'job losses' across the IT industry, public sector and support sectors, then they are blind. The IT industry in the UK has already had a very rough couple of years - with 10k workers being laid off a week last year at one point. Do the Tories plan to sit back and wipe out yet another industry?

    They talk of their being 400k people who leave and join the public sector in the UK each year, and say that by not hiring new people to replace them they can save money. Well, yes, not filling posts will save money but it will also damage services. Most of those people moving around jobs will fall within the 'lower paid' ranks of jobs. School TAs, administrative assistants, etc... What will these people do instead? Go on the dole?

    The Tory plan is poorly thought out and will, if they get in, be poorly executed.
    Hopefully some of us might see the managed ICT disappear

  14. #73

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-GM View Post
    Hopefully some of us might see the managed ICT disappear
    Unlikely - that will be where 'renegotiating contracts' comes in. ie. getting more stuff outsourced, for less.

  15. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Unlikely - that will be where 'renegotiating contracts' comes in. ie. getting more stuff outsourced, for less.
    Could get very interesting..... You might find renegotiating actually means more PFI, as this does not appear as 'borrowing' on UK PLCs books.

    It's a classic accountancy trick of shifting costs from 'capital' to 'revenue'..... a bit like one of us buying a car on HP rather than using a bank loan.....
    Last edited by broc; 9th April 2010 at 12:32 PM. Reason: I wish I could type properly & spell at the same time

  16. #75

    teejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    This isn't quite true - National Statistics Online

    Through the late 90s and into the early part of the 2000s Labour paid back debt - it fell from about 42% of GDP to just less than 30%

    In part, that's because GDP went up but it's also because Gordon Brown as chancellor did pay back money which had been borrowed earlier.

    Over the past few years, borrowing has gone up (and dramatically recently) but it doesn't mean we can't afford it. If our economy doesn't recover then perhaps we can't but I'd like to think that it will recover and start growing again (the phrase "green shoots" isn't popular but we did see a tiny amount of growth at the start of this year and many of the other indicators are pointing the right way)

    A government can increase income from tax either by putting up the rate or by having more people working and paying tax - sharing out the load nicely. If GDP goes up (and it almost certainly will) then the debt problem is reduced.

    To me, it's a bit like taking out a mortgage. When you first take it out, it eats up a huge chunk of your income but then time goes by, your income goes up and after 5-10 years the mortgage payments don't seem so bad at all.
    Thats because that figure doesn't include off book debt such as PFI and other such accounting fiddles, when you include these, debt has risen considerably through the years when those figures show a decrease.

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