Poll: Who will you vote for?

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General Chat Thread, Who Will The Geeks Vote For In The General Election in General; shouldn't this poll have included a few of the more prominent "other" parties (Greens,UKIP,BNP Etc)...
  1. #46

    JJonas's Avatar
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    shouldn't this poll have included a few of the more prominent "other" parties (Greens,UKIP,BNP Etc)

  2. #47

    broc's Avatar
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    When the politicians talk about 'cost cutting' in the public sector, emulating what the private sector is doing, be aware that for many this means cutting jobs.

    For those old enough to remember, in the Thatcher era this meant millions of unemployed workers being paid benefits funded by oil revenues....... which we no longer have

    Making public sector workers (like most of us) redundant means:

    We claim benefits

    We don't pay tax

    We don't pay NI contributions

    We don't make pension contributions

    We buy less, which means we don't pay as much VAT, excise duty on the goods & services

    Those left in employment have to shoulder a bigger proportion of the tax burden overall.

    Think about who is promising the biggest cuts when you go to vote.......

  3. 2 Thanks to broc:

    localzuk (8th April 2010), srochford (8th April 2010)

  4. #48
    leco's Avatar
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    When this thread started I meant not to join in but ... I am old enough to remember Thatcher and I live in an area devastated by her policies, even before she was PM.

    When reading all this political rhetoric a song continues in my head ... "We are the self-preservation society". Think hard about all the analogies, both song words and film.
    Last edited by leco; 8th April 2010 at 09:54 AM.

  5. Thanks to leco from:

    jcollings (8th April 2010)

  6. #49
    duncane's Avatar
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    I find it ironic that the Labour government was more about the "me society" than the Thatcher government.

    It wasn't the Conservatives that were selfish before 1997 - it was the people - and they carried on being selfish during the Labour years while patting themselves on the back for how wonderful and caring they were.

    The Labour Party enacted things that the Conservatives would not have gotten away with because there would have been opposition from the left to hold them in balance. The Labour Party has singularly failed to police itself.

  7. #50
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    When the politicians talk about 'cost cutting' in the public sector, emulating what the private sector is doing, be aware that for many this means cutting jobs.

    For those old enough to remember, in the Thatcher era this meant millions of unemployed workers being paid benefits funded by oil revenues....... which we no longer have

    Making public sector workers (like most of us) redundant means:

    We claim benefits

    We don't pay tax

    We don't pay NI contributions

    We don't make pension contributions

    We buy less, which means we don't pay as much VAT, excise duty on the goods & services

    Those left in employment have to shoulder a bigger proportion of the tax burden overall.

    Think about who is promising the biggest cuts when you go to vote.......
    as far as i'm aware none of the parties have been specific enough about cuts - they are waiting until after the election for that. Plus, i don't think there will be any mandate for the type of slashing of spending for 2010-11 that is being attributed to some parties.

    funnily enough, it was Darling who said that the cuts that would have to be made would be deeper than those undertaken by thatcher....if what your trying to get at is that the usual suspect is the party of cuts, and the others wlll somehow be less harsh. The truth is that we just don't know for sure because not that many details are available.

    if it's a case of turkeys not voting for christmas then no-one in the public sector should vote for any of the main parties....but that would be an overreactoin. I don't know how feasible that is for any party to try and undertake such redundancies btw, maybe the so-called progressive parties will just do what they've been doing for years, move more provision of public services into the private sector via ppp's - ....labour have really stepped up their use of such tactics. It's inevitable that as they have quite significant deficit reduction plans, we'll see more employment transfer from 'public' to 'private' sector.

  8. #51

    SpuffMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trapper View Post
    Which is why the power is with, and always has been with the whips. Most of them just turn up and vote as directed by the chief whip, no thought goes into the decision.

    I've seen some of the debates going on, it's pitiful when only four or five MPs turn up. This is what their paid for, you'd like to think that when serious decisions are taken all MPs at least know the background!

    At a local level things are better, I'm tweeting with my local councilor, who gets things done. It's rare to have a PM from a Tory saying "cheers dude"!
    Agree about whips - wouldn't it be a good idea if MPs had a secret ballot arrangement for voting too - just like they made the unions have - that would ginger things up a bit.

  9. #52

    SpuffMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    When the politicians talk about 'cost cutting' in the public sector, emulating what the private sector is doing, be aware that for many this means cutting jobs.

    For those old enough to remember, in the Thatcher era this meant millions of unemployed workers being paid benefits funded by oil revenues....... which we no longer have

    Making public sector workers (like most of us) redundant means:

    We claim benefits

    We don't pay tax

    We don't pay NI contributions

    We don't make pension contributions

    We buy less, which means we don't pay as much VAT, excise duty on the goods & services

    Those left in employment have to shoulder a bigger proportion of the tax burden overall.

    Think about who is promising the biggest cuts when you go to vote.......
    Its always seemed a bit pointless that public se ctor staff pay direct taxes - the govt gives us money and then excessively bureaucratically takes it away again - given the large %age of public sector employees in the workforce - surely it would be a saving to just reduce our wages by about 30-odd % and sack a load of tax collecting staff?

  10. #53
    duncane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    Agree about whips - wouldn't it be a good idea if MPs had a secret ballot arrangement for voting too - just like they made the unions have - that would ginger things up a bit.
    No - how would we, the voters, be able to hold them to account if we don't know how they vote on issues?

  11. #54

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    Its always seemed a bit pointless that public se ctor staff pay direct taxes - the govt gives us money and then excessively bureaucratically takes it away again - given the large %age of public sector employees in the workforce - surely it would be a saving to just reduce our wages by about 30-odd % and sack a load of tax collecting staff?
    Now you're getting into an area which seems quite reasonable on the surface. Why do we have such a complex tax system? We have several direct taxes (NI, Income tax at different levels), and a huge number of indirect taxes - VAT, fuel duty, beer duty, stamp duty, etc...

    Surely, if all of these were streamlined down to a much simpler single direct tax, then we would have a smaller civil service? Add in the split between council tax and national taxes too and huge amounts of money are used simply to collect tax.

    But then, you hit the snag - 'saving money', meaning 'sacking people'. What would those people do instead?

  12. #55
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffMonkey View Post
    Its always seemed a bit pointless that public se ctor staff pay direct taxes - the govt gives us money and then excessively bureaucratically takes it away again - given the large %age of public sector employees in the workforce - surely it would be a saving to just reduce our wages by about 30-odd % and sack a load of tax collecting staff?
    taxes can be quite effective if used correctly and well targetted.

    But that's the point about taxes, they in part are used to impact how and how much we spend......i think people need to look beyond taxes as mere revenue generators. that way you see the benefit of using a variety of different taxes.

  13. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    But then, you hit the snag - 'saving money', meaning 'sacking people'. What would those people do instead?
    This is a real problem which no-one seems able to address. Cameron can trot out all the big business people who support his stance on NI and says how wonderful they are at creating jobs and yet all of them are actually trying to get fewer people doing more work (eg every supermarket near me now has rows of self service checkouts so you get 1 member of staff supervising 12 checkouts instead of 12 checkout staff)

    It's easy to talk about people doing "non-jobs" but sometimes that's because there aren't any "real" jobs to do - we seem to have closed down all the manufacturing industry that used to employ people (and does anyone remember coal mines - they used to employ tens of thousands of people)

  14. #57
    nicholab's Avatar
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    The 3 main parties
    Conservative off shore party and outsources politicians
    New Labour More Brown
    Liberal democrats might make a difference.

  15. #58

    localzuk's Avatar
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    We are approaching a point where there will simply never be enough jobs in the UK for the people that live here. Low down jobs are being replaced constantly (look at the Royal Mail dispute - that is over exactly this), manufacturing jobs are outsourced, IT jobs are being reduced and outsourced, more people buy things online instead of in shops, meaning less staff needed in shops.

    What do the parties plan to do about this? How can the UK produce more long term jobs? One area which is mentioned in passing occasionally is the high-tech industry. We have massive amounts of skills and knowledge in engineering, electronics, computing etc... over here but our high-tech industry is tiny.

    What about the big jobs that never get done? We spend decades talking about building new railway services, building new roads, or implementing a country-wide electric car charging grid but by the time it actually gets agreed, most of it is outsourced to other countries to build, or it is scaled back.

  16. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by leco View Post
    When this thread started I meant not to join in but ... I am old enough to remember Thatcher and I live in an area devastated by her policies, even before she was PM.

    When reading all this political rhetoric a song continues in my head ... "We are the self-preservation society". Think hard about all the analogies, both song words and film.
    Me too - and I also remember the huge sigh of relief when the Conservative Party were thrown out and Labour got in.
    Same old same old...

  17. #60
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    I have a horrible feeling one of the constituencies near here is going to end up with a BNP MP - the sitting Labour MP (with an 8,000 majority) is frequently demonstrating himself to be embarrassingly out of touch and something of a liability, and I think many people who would generally have supported him will not vote, as they can't bring themselves to put a X next to the Tory's name, leaving the door open for a smaller party.

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