Poll: Who will you vote for?

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General Chat Thread, Who Will The Geeks Vote For In The General Election in General; Originally Posted by srochford I don't think Brown is the best prime minister ever (not sure who was!) but there ...
  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    I don't think Brown is the best prime minister ever (not sure who was!) but there are many things which have happened while he was chancellor and prime minister that were better than when Thatcher and Major were in charge (and I'm sure some will find many which were worse). snip
    Brown was the Chancellor who will go down in history for fouling up pensions and selling off the gold reserve - can't think of much good that happened under him - well apart from the smoking ban but that wasn't much to do with him anyhow was it!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    It's also misleading to talk about doubling the rate of tax from 10% to 20% - the 10% was only ever paid on a very small fraction of income. Yes, it made a difference and, yes, the whole process was badly handled but it didn't "double the rate of income tax."
    It would have been misleading to say "doubled the tax" - but I specifically said "double the rate of tax". It might be a small fraction of the income of someone who's better off, but it's quite a lot when you're on a low income. It was done cynically - with the idea of calling a snap election before the effects would be plain to see - but that didn't happen.

  3. #33

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    Whatever you think of Gordon Brown/New Labour, you cannot lay all the blame for the problems with pensions on them. Pensions have been fouled up by companies keen to cut their contributions and get rid of final salary pensions; pension funds have also been hit by the reckless behaviour of Banks and the financial turmoil that resulted.

    As far as the storm in a teacup arguments about NI increases, the reason big business are making such a fuss is that taxes such as corporation tax can be avoided by skilled accountants, whereas NI cannot. Nobody points out that NI is a fairer tax in the sense that everyone pays, both public & private sector employers & employees and nobody can duck it.

    The Tories are kicking up quite a storm over 1% NI increase, they didn't make much fuss about Labour freezing local govt pay rises which would have been at a similar level if recent years are to go by... but of course the Local Govt Association is controlled by Tory Councils....

  4. #34

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    The problem is that NI ,is not ringfenced for health purposes, just like road tax is just added to the pot. It is a method of general taxation. And it is a fact that we as UK workers have never been as highly taxed as we are now, it's just that most of it is by stealth.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    Whatever you think of Gordon Brown/New Labour, you cannot lay all the blame for the problems with pensions on them. Pensions have been fouled up by companies keen to cut their contributions and get rid of final salary pensions; pension funds have also been hit by the reckless behaviour of Banks and the financial turmoil that resulted.

    As far as the storm in a teacup arguments about NI increases, the reason big business are making such a fuss is that taxes such as corporation tax can be avoided by skilled accountants, whereas NI cannot. Nobody points out that NI is a fairer tax in the sense that everyone pays, both public & private sector employers & employees and nobody can duck it.

    The Tories are kicking up quite a storm over 1% NI increase, they didn't make much fuss about Labour freezing local govt pay rises which would have been at a similar level if recent years are to go by... but of course the Local Govt Association is controlled by Tory Councils....
    But if it's felt that the NI rise is required for additional revenue, why actually lose the potential for increased revenue by abolishing stamp duty payable on home purchases up to 250k ? Surely you don't give up the opportunity for potentially billions in stamp duty taxes because you plan on several billion in revenue from increased NI on earned income.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    The problem is that NI ,is not ringfenced for health purposes, just like road tax is just added to the pot. It is a method of general taxation. And it is a fact that we as UK workers have never been as highly taxed as we are now, it's just that most of it is by stealth.
    Hi,

    I was watching something on TV a few weeks ago. In proportion to earnings at the time, percentage wise conservatives tax has always been higher than labour.


    On another note, the colour bars are just right for the party they represent. Coincidence or what.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-GM View Post
    Hi,

    I was watching something on TV a few weeks ago. In proportion to earnings at the time, percentage wise conservatives tax has always been higher than labour.


    On another note, the colour bars are just right for the party they represent. Coincidence or what.
    That is proberbly direct taxation, not indirect tax such as road tax, pensions, fuel duty etc. Add those upand it gets quite shocking.

  8. #38

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    No idea to be honest, i aam just repeating what the BBC said

  9. #39

    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    The BBC (allegedly) just repreat what the govt says too.

  10. #40
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    Tonight's farce in the House of Commons just shows democracy is dead... Digital Economy Bill passed, 180 something bs 40 something. Only 30 MPs actually sat in on the Reading. Shut your eyes, throw a dart at the polling card. S'about as useful as public opinion.

    Better install Smoothwall Guardian on all domestic PCs from henceforth if you wish to keep your net connection...

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marci View Post
    Tonight's farce in the House of Commons just shows democracy is dead... Digital Economy Bill passed, 180 something bs 40 something. Only 30 MPs actually sat in on the Reading. Shut your eyes, throw a dart at the polling card. S'about as useful as public opinion.

    Better install Smoothwall Guardian on all domestic PCs from henceforth if you wish to keep your net connection...
    Yep, this sort of thing makes parliament a disgrace. MP's should be required to attend at least 75% of readings/debates and votes, plus the party whip should be abolished apart from specific laws clearly stated in their manifesto.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by teejay View Post
    Yep, this sort of thing makes parliament a disgrace. MP's should be required to attend at least 75% of readings/debates and votes, plus the party whip should be abolished apart from specific laws clearly stated in their manifesto.
    Which is why the power is with, and always has been with the whips. Most of them just turn up and vote as directed by the chief whip, no thought goes into the decision.

    I've seen some of the debates going on, it's pitiful when only four or five MPs turn up. This is what their paid for, you'd like to think that when serious decisions are taken all MPs at least know the background!

    At a local level things are better, I'm tweeting with my local councilor, who gets things done. It's rare to have a PM from a Tory saying "cheers dude"!

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dos_Box View Post
    And it is a fact that we as UK workers have never been as highly taxed as we are now, it's just that most of it is by stealth.
    Is it a fact? it's not one I've ever seen proved - there are plenty of stats which show that for decades the average tax level has been about the same - it's just moved around (so the last Conservative government dropped income tax and put up VAT; this government dropped income tax and put up NI) and the net effect is very little change (except for the richest who get good accountants to avoid the taxes that everyone else has to pay!)

  14. Thanks to srochford from:

    jcollings (8th April 2010)

  15. #44

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    I think there are two sometimes conflicting forces at play within the Govt;

    One, the traditional Labour view that says taxes need to fairly spread, and two the 'New Labour' view that tries to emulate the Conservatives....

  16. #45

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    The traditional view is that people have no choice about paying direct taxes, whereas they have when it comes to indirect taxes such as VAT, VED, etc.

    The reality is of course that this only applies to the poorest people who work for a living; wealthy people employ accountants to avoid taxes.

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