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General Chat Thread, This is all you need to know about this year's election. in General; Originally Posted by j17sparky So who you voting for then? The BNP, the green party? Get real. How about you ...
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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    So who you voting for then? The BNP, the green party? Get real. How about you set one up then if its so easy
    Did I say anything about setting up a party? No, I said stand yourself. Become an independent candidate - there are always a handful of them in every area. It isn't that difficult. AFAIK, you need a 500 deposit, and 10 people to nominate you. Then you just need to advertise yourself/campaign etc... (Info available here http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...heet-FINAL.pdf)

    I'm not saying you have a chance of doing much, but if enough people voted for these different people and parties, we wouldn't have the 2 party mess we have now.

    You seem to be equating voting with 'voting for someone who is likely to get in' - which is not the point!

    As for my political stance, I think I made that clear recently on another thread.
    Last edited by localzuk; 5th April 2010 at 01:13 PM.

  2. #17

    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    everybody just vote SNP

  3. Thanks to RabbieBurns from:

    Gatt (6th April 2010)

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    I think Mattx should stand. Vote for Mattx!

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Did I say anything about setting up a party? No, I said stand yourself. Become an independent candidate - there are always a handful of them in every area. It isn't that difficult. AFAIK, you need a 500 deposit, and 10 people to nominate you. Then you just need to advertise yourself/campaign etc... (Info available here http://www.electoralcommission.org.u...heet-FINAL.pdf)

    I'm not saying you have a chance of doing much, but if enough people voted for these different people and parties, we wouldn't have the 2 party mess we have now.

    You seem to be equating voting with 'voting for someone who is likely to get in' - which is not the point!

    As for my political stance, I think I made that clear recently on another thread.
    yes, but what kind of swing do you need to vote for these 'other' parties to challenge a lot of the one and two horse races ? Ofcourse it would be nice if everyone came to their senses, but the winning of hearts and minds is a complicated thing. It's never as straightforward as some of the alternative parties manifesto's seem to suggest.....mainly because we've got the baggage and instiutions that are the result of decades of neoliberalism. And you have to work within that framework initially even if you ultimately want to dismantle some or all of it.

    You run the risk of making it a one-horse race, taking votes away form genuine challengers to the incumbents, by voting for the no-hopers. Ofcourse there's an element of tactical voting at play....it very much is a point of voting these days.

    anyway, i don't think i've got a big enough ego to stand for any type of elecion, so i'll stick to voting or not voting. And if i don't vote, then i will complain about stuff if i want to.

  6. #20

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    yes, but what kind of swing do you need to vote for these 'other' parties to challenge a lot of the one and two horse races ? Ofcourse it would be nice if everyone came to their senses, but the winning of hearts and minds is a complicated thing. It's never as straightforward as some of the alternative parties manifesto's seem to suggest.....mainly because we've got the baggage and instiutions that are the result of decades of neoliberalism. And you have to work within that framework initially even if you ultimately want to dismantle some or all of it.

    You run the risk of making it a one-horse race, taking votes away form genuine challengers to the incumbents, by voting for the no-hopers. Ofcourse there's an element of tactical voting at play....it very much is a point of voting these days.

    anyway, i don't think i've got a big enough ego to stand for any type of elecion, so i'll stick to voting or not voting. And if i don't vote, then i will complain about stuff if i want to.
    See, that is exactly the thinking which keeps us in the current mess. If you don't vote, don't expect those of us that do to listen to anything you have to say...

    I'll give you some numbers. The MP down here won by a majority of about 9k votes. Not a huge number, by any account!

  7. #21


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    Ill listen to you torledo

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post

    The only reason our political system is in the mess it is now, is because of voter apathy and because of people not doing something about it!
    the voter apathy comes because of a lack of credibility amongst the parties [not just the mainstream ones]....some of the candidates themselves i'm sure are very nice people, with a degree of intelligence, and a commitment to public service.

    But it does go back to being able to work within the system of govt. that we currently have, understanding industry, the financial sector, the monetary system......what does an alternate party do ? IT'll rely on experts just like the main political parties surely. And will their experts have any less of a vested interest if they come from the industry they are advising on.

    So while i think so and so sounds great, if a little vague, once you scratch beneath the surface how workable is it, what they are proposing.

    Voter apathy isn't to blame, political parties looking and sounding like a convincing govt.has to come first. But you know, to win votes, the parties cannot please everyone all of the time.

  9. #23

    john's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmount View Post
    Anyone want to chip in a few quid and we'll just get a little island somewhere outside of anyone's control?
    Sounds a nice Idea Kim, so long as we can have Windows on the island as well as Linux then I'm happy and will join you

    Its weird, a friend of mine is the leader for a local political party and he needs people to stand in the local wards for him and has approached me, I'm tempted to go for it as we only have 3 to go for here and tbh there all very old (nothing against the older generations) but we have a big problem of this area is full of retired / retiring people and 2nd homes thus making it expensive and an area not for the younger generations and I know that's part of what the party is about's, its called The Youth Party

  10. #24
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    See, that is exactly the thinking which keeps us in the current mess. If you don't vote, don't expect those of us that do to listen to anything you have to say...

    I'll give you some numbers. The MP down here won by a majority of about 9k votes. Not a huge number, by any account!
    ok, for arguments sake.... if one of the other candidates, not out of the three major parties in my area won - managed to overturn the majority.....how do i know if they'd be any good or make any difference, if i myself am not convinced by them ?

    you seem to be saying that any kind of change is good.....when it isn't necessarily going to deliver that much of an improvement. MP's are their represent their constituents - to win enough votes they have to appeal to the majority of their constituents.....will that always result in the most equitable of policies ? I think the example that john gives about an area having a particular socio-economic demographic as the majority may be a case in point....? You have to work within that, and appeal to that no ?

    I'm sure this is the problem the big parties have faced, and why they've had to backtrack or U turn on proposals.
    Last edited by torledo; 5th April 2010 at 04:35 PM.

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    but by voting for an odd party you may end up with some strange people in power. look at doncaster we elected (and i diddnt vote for him) a mayor whose pledges (or at least some of them) cant be done as a the probably break eu rules and require the backing of the council which as the sole representative of his party (at least as far as im aware) so they wont happen either (and as some of them border on racist imo thats not a bad thing)

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    Crispin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    If you don't vote, don't expect those of us that do to listen to anything you have to say...
    That's a rather a lofty statement to make on behalf of others, is it not?

    If I DON'T vote that does NOT mean I:

    don't care about politics
    am somehow 'undemocratic'
    am 'insulting those who fought for our right to vote'

    I am very politically motivated, I engage with my local MP, often writing many letters of complaint about policies. One issue that springs to mind was the abortion and stem cell issues that were around last year.

    I sign petitions, I demonstrate, I protest, I try to engage people in reasoned debate about political issues. I put a lot of effort into absorbing as much information as possible concerning current events and the governments policies/

    So simply because I don't vote, somehow that strips me of my rights to an opinion? I'm put in some kind of 'non-voter' gang that all the 'voters' sneer at from above?

    I'm rather insulted by this way of thinking.

  13. #27

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    That's a rather a lofty statement to make on behalf of others, is it not?
    No, considering I simply said that people who don't vote shouldn't have an expectation that others listen to them... Is that a lofty statement? I don't think it is.

    If I DON'T vote that does NOT mean I:

    don't care about politics
    am somehow 'undemocratic'
    am 'insulting those who fought for our right to vote'

    I am very politically motivated, I engage with my local MP, often writing many letters of complaint about policies. One issue that springs to mind was the abortion and stem cell issues that were around last year.

    I sign petitions, I demonstrate, I protest, I try to engage people in reasoned debate about political issues. I put a lot of effort into absorbing as much information as possible concerning current events and the governments policies/

    So simply because I don't vote, somehow that strips me of my rights to an opinion? I'm put in some kind of 'non-voter' gang that all the 'voters' sneer at from above?

    I'm rather insulted by this way of thinking.
    Being insulted is your choice. Its great that you choose to take part in those things! I wish more people did. However, if you don't vote, all of that is kinda pointless - as the person you're talking to may well hold the exact opposite views to you, so writing to them will fall on deaf ears most of the time.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    but by voting for an odd party you may end up with some strange people in power. look at doncaster we elected (and i diddnt vote for him) a mayor whose pledges (or at least some of them) cant be done as a the probably break eu rules and require the backing of the council which as the sole representative of his party (at least as far as im aware) so they wont happen either (and as some of them border on racist imo thats not a bad thing)
    yeah, i remember him, he gained quite a bit of national media attention last year...especially the salary reduction and his comments about wanting to cut translation services.

    BBC NEWS | UK | England | New mayor slashes his own wages

    wonder how far he's been able to go with some of these ideas ? Can't imagine halving the number of councillors will have gone down terrificly well with the politicians he needs the support of, as you say.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    No, considering I simply said that people who don't vote shouldn't have an expectation that others listen to them... Is that a lofty statement? I don't think it is.



    Being insulted is your choice. Its great that you choose to take part in those things! I wish more people did. However, if you don't vote, all of that is kinda pointless - as the person you're talking to may well hold the exact opposite views to you, so writing to them will fall on deaf ears most of the time.
    erm, voting for someone who holds the same views as you [even if that's possible, i have my doubts] is a bit pointless if the electoral majority have different priorities.....and that's what the politicians need to guage if they are to be successful. that's democracy for you.

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    May stand to be a Cllr in 4 years - just waiting till my kids a little older....... Just need to wash my monster raving looney party outfit...

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