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General Chat Thread, Pedantic Geeks - the campaign for real grammar ;) in General; @Grumbledook My teachers, like yours, were very definite on the use of ~ise as a suffix not ~ize. Until now, ...
  1. #61

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    @Grumbledook

    My teachers, like yours, were very definite on the use of ~ise as a suffix not ~ize. Until now, I had not really questionned what they said. I find it interesting that both are grammatically correct, but common practice has made the standard to which we adhere.

    Last term our head of English broke her wrist at a critical point in the report-writing cycle. I stepped in as typist so that she could dictate the reports. I'm sure it took twice as long as we ended up debating the grammatical accuracy of what was being written. I'm blaming her, she kept asking me if I thought it was correct. Normally, I would defer to her; her written English is well nigh perfect.

  2. #62

    SYSMAN_MK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroHour View Post
    Hmm maybe I should start a "mi engrish s l33t" group
    So I shouldnt be wasting my time looking for spell checking/grammar checking software for el'geek? I really have been looking for it too
    lol


  3. Thanks to SYSMAN_MK from:

    elsiegee40 (25th March 2010)

  4. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    When I first got on the net almost 20 years ago, the still significantly academic consensus said grammar/spelling pedantry in forums i.e. largely conversational places, was bad netiquette.
    Perhaps, until we get to the point at which it is very difficult to understand what others are trying to convey, given their lack of said grammar and spelling!
    Given that the net was significantly academic when these "rules" were crafted I suppose there were far fewer sins compared to what happened after it reverted to mean, but since then it's usually been the messages (what people are saying, assuming they're saying anything) rather than the medium (quality of english grammar) that have annoyed me.

  5. #64

    beeswax's Avatar
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    But as Marshall McLuhan said, "the medium is the massage".

  6. #65

    witch's Avatar
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    I don't think Americans are lazy with spelling, I was taught that they went down a different route. I found this:
    "In the early 18th century, English spelling was not standardized. Differences became noticeable after the publishing of influential dictionaries. Current British English spellings follow, for the most part, those of Samuel Johnson's Dictionary of the English Language (1755), whereas many American English spellings follow Noah Webster's An American Dictionary of the English Language of 1828.

    Webster was a strong proponent of spelling reform for reasons both philological and nationalistic. Many spelling changes proposed in the US by Webster himself, and in the early 20th century by the Simplified Spelling Board, never caught on. Among the advocates of spelling reform in England, the influences of those who preferred the Norman (or Anglo-French) spellings of certain words proved decisive. Subsequent spelling adjustments in the UK had little effect on present-day US spelling, and vice versa. While in many cases American English deviated in the 19th century from mainstream British spelling, on the other hand it has also often retained older forms."

    Language is always evolving - after all, we only have spellings like 'Queen' because the French said so after 1066. Original spelling was probably 'Cwene' which makes a bit more sense.

    I think that we have to accept evolving language, as Bill Bryson says in 'Mother Tongue' and 'Made in America'. Some of our rules are just down to one person saying, in times gone by, 'that's wrong!' Starting a sentence with a preposition for example, or splitting an infinitive.
    But spelling and basic grammar - now that's a different thing altogether..

  7. #66
    danrhodes's Avatar
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    Kid's listen to a lot of music, the pop world aren't setting a good example!

    20 Songs with Really Bad Grammar - My hmphs

  8. #67

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    But as Marshall McLuhan said, "the medium is the massage".
    Yeah, but was he in charge of the universe? I think that concept .. which only works from a distance, fails in lots of places and most people appear to parrot rather than comprehend .. is overrated.

    If you want a useful concept, especially in tech-design, try "less is more".

    [Cue ye olde less v. fewer debate]

  9. #68

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    I'm in! Thank goodness for this thread. I know that it's becoming more and more acceptable to ignore the confusing apostrophe but omitting it, or misplacing it, really gets under my skin.

  10. #69

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    I know that it's becoming more and more acceptable to ignore the confusing apostrophe but omitting it, or misplacing it, really gets under my skin.
    Have you ever missed an audible apostrophe in a real, spoken, conversation?

  11. #70

    tech_guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    Have you ever missed an audible apostrophe in a real, spoken, conversation?
    Yes, whenever I speak to someone from Birmingham....

  12. #71

    creese's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand View Post
    You have to get them specially made. I believe that when you are as hirsute as Robin Williams they are something of a necessity.
    Found one.

    Tooth Comb

  13. #72

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    Yes, whenever I speak to someone from Birmingham....
    Perhaps you're confusing an apostrophe with a translator?

    [I routinely get to decrypt some older gen. Black Country "I ay|bay|day" stuff.]

  14. #73

    SpuffMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeswax View Post
    But as Marshall McLuhan said, "the medium is the massage".
    Now you're just trying to rub me up the wrong way

  15. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    Yeah, but was he in charge of the universe? I think that concept .. which only works from a distance, fails in lots of places and most people appear to parrot rather than comprehend .. is overrated.

    If you want a useful concept, especially in tech-design, try "less is more".

    [Cue ye olde less v. fewer debate]
    Though I was mainly being mischievous, it's been 37 years since I last read it and I need to remind myself of the arguments. I've been trying to locate the book for several days now. I know it's somewhere in the house but I can't lay my hand on it. Unfortunately, not being Woody Allen, and McLuhan being dead (bummer), I can't pull him out from behind my wireless router to refute your argument.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBtXfBdEXEs"]YouTube- Annie Hall Marshall McLuhan Scene (short edit) Woody Allen[/ame]
    I don't follow your "in charge of the universe" line.

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    The written language is based in the idea that it helps us develop speech patterns, with some punctuation to denote pauses and others to denote emphasis. Without a good understanding of this then we lose so much.
    I saw a sign on a hospital fridge today. It said:

    Food in this fridge should be:
    1. Unopened
    2. Labelled and
    3. Not in a carrier bag

    Why would all the food be labelled with the word "and"?

  17. 2 Thanks to danieldainty:

    GrumbleDook (1st April 2010), localzuk (1st April 2010)

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