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General Chat Thread, Pedantic Geeks - the campaign for real grammar ;) in General; Originally Posted by RingOfFlame Have you nothing better to do? This is a forum not a dictionary. So what if ...
  1. #31

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFlame View Post
    Have you nothing better to do? This is a forum not a dictionary. So what if some people make a mistake? Members may post in a rush when they have an urgent problem, or in between jobs.

    Others may not have the literacy skills that some of you have, but may well have the answer to a problem you are experiencing.
    Pedantry takes different forms. Re-read your post

    As it says in the group description
    Just for fun
    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFlame View Post
    This is a forum for Techs not Librarians. Maybe a good name for the group would be members with a superiority complex.
    Being pedantic, some of us are Techs AND Librarians; me for a start! Although, I'm only qualified as a tech... The librarian bit comes with an enthusiasm for reading; unless English Language and Literature O'Levels (Grades A and C respectively) count?

  2. #32

    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    I'm in!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    As much as I believe in Mr Fry's point of view that language should be allowed to grow and evolve... the sheer scale of laziness that is forcing this change is my pet irk.

    The written language is based in the idea that it helps us develop speech patterns, with some punctuation to denote pauses and others to denote emphasis. Without a good understanding of this then we lose so much.
    Exactly! I can't abide it when (mainly on other forums I frequent) the resident "so right on it hurts" members trot out the "language is evolving" argument (usually in perfect English!). Yes, it is evolving, but surely if the change is caused by laziness then it should be considered to be devolving?

    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    I think you should have your own sub-forum so everyone else can ignore it ;b

    When I first got on the net almost 20 years ago, the still significantly academic consensus said grammar/spelling pedantry in forums i.e. largely conversational places, was bad netiquette.

    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFlame View Post
    Have you nothing better to do? This is a forum not a dictionary. So what if some people make a mistake? Members may post in a rush when they have an urgent problem, or in between jobs.

    Others may not have the literacy skills that some of you have, but may well have the answer to a problem you are experiencing. This is a forum for Techs not Librarians. Maybe a good name for the group would be members with a superiority complex.
    I thought the point of the group was to keep such discussions out of the main forums?

    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    So I regularly end up editing after posting.
    Me too!

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Another thing to remember is that for people who English is not their first language, reading poor grammar and spelling will be a lot more confusing than it is to us.

    They won't know the nuances of our language to the extent that we do.
    I don't think anyone is criticising those people, but I was under the impression that most here are native English speakers.

    The worst/most annoying "English" I have seen is a member on another forum who posts in an unintelligible "Ali G" argot that must surely be an affectation, but who gets upset when people ask for clarification.

  3. #33

    LosOjos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFlame View Post
    Have you nothing better to do? This is a forum not a dictionary. So what if some people make a mistake? Members may post in a rush when they have an urgent problem, or in between jobs.

    Others may not have the literacy skills that some of you have, but may well have the answer to a problem you are experiencing. This is a forum for Techs not Librarians. Maybe a good name for the group would be members with a superiority complex.
    It's just a bit of fun, I'm sure a lot of my posts display some truly awful grammar, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it

  4. #34

    korifugi's Avatar
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    Correct grammar and punctuation are important for emphasis and making other people understand your meaning...

    Apologies to all, but I'm going to delve a little into slang (Or a more relaxed way of speaking) to demonstrate my point...

    Right: "That is a cool-ass hat!"

    Wrong: "That is a cool ass-hat!"

    See? Without the correct use of punctuation our meaning is totally de-railed and our meaning misunderstood.


  5. 3 Thanks to korifugi:

    GrumbleDook (25th March 2010), jinnantonnix (25th March 2010), sparkeh (25th March 2010)

  6. #35

    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korifugi View Post
    Correct grammar and punctuation are important for emphasis and making other people understand your meaning...
    Even correct use of capitals can transform a sentence. Imagine what people would think if this didn't have capitals:

    I helped my Uncle Jack off a horse.

  7. 8 Thanks to LeMarchand:

    elsiegee40 (25th March 2010), GrumbleDook (25th March 2010), jinnantonnix (25th March 2010), korifugi (25th March 2010), saundersmatt (25th March 2010), sparkeh (25th March 2010), tech_guy (25th March 2010), tmcd35 (25th March 2010)

  8. #36

    korifugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchand View Post
    Even correct use of capitals can transform a sentence. Imagine what people would think if this didn't have capitals:

    I helped my Uncle Jack off a horse.
    Thankyou - I now have tea in my nostrils!

  9. #37

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korifugi View Post
    Thankyou - I now have tea in my nostrils!
    Me too!

  10. #38

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeMarchard
    I don't think anyone is criticising those people, but I was under the impression that most here are native English speakers.
    Ah, you missed my point. I wasn't talking about the writing abilities of non-English speakers, I was talking about the importance of using correct grammar, spelling and punctuation for non-English speakers to read.

    Much like the use of slang, poor grammar and the like can confuse someone who doesn't speak the language natively.

  11. #39

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    While I'll agree up to a point I will repeat what I've said several times over. It's the content and meaning of what is being said that is important - not the method in which it is being said. While spelling and grammar is important it is secondary to the message.

    I know I can't spell for toffee and I'm sure I've used more than the odd punctuation mark in the wrong place. But really, I don't care! So long as you understand the meaning of what I type I can't see as being of that great an importance.

    Sorry. (actually, I'm not that sorry - just trying to be polite )
    Don't be sorry ... though you have a very valid arguement. For those who have watched Trainspotting *&* read the book then you can understand how the structure of the structure of the language is important to the content ... but this is the exception rather than the rule and works because Mr W is a fantastic author who understands language. He would not get away with what he does if this was not the case.

    You can take it to music too. I still laugh every time I hear clips of Les Dawson playing the piano ... but that is because I have also heard him play some significant pieces of music. He got away with it because he knew how to deconstruct.

    There is a difference between a pedant and someone with a love for carefully crafted language. However, language being bastardised due to ignorance or laziness is another matter. The forced changed for marketing purposes (eg consistently using only lower case with no punctuation) or the forced change because it is 'easier' (eg councils deciding to drop the apostrophe from street names / signs) means that people get mixed messages and struggle to decide for themselves about language. If we allow forced changes like this then do we risk generating the double-speak which Winston fought against in 1984.
    Last edited by GrumbleDook; 25th March 2010 at 11:08 AM.

  12. #40

    creese's Avatar
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    As posted in the thread that started this group.

    'I went over it with a fine tooth-comb'. It's a toothbrush! or a fine-toothed comb as in a comb with fine teeth.

  13. #41

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    geþéode bret ofer bearhtmhwíl

    (old english apparently )

  14. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Therapy
    That should have had an "!" or a "?" at least - ha! ha!

  15. #43

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    I know it's eduGod's thread, but...
    http://www.edugeek.net/forums/genera...t-new-car.html


  16. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnix View Post
    It was a mighty fine tooth-comb.
    My dentist tells me to use a brush. I looked in Boots and there is no sign of a tooth-comb.
    Last edited by creese; 25th March 2010 at 12:23 PM.

  17. #45

    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creese View Post
    I looked in Boots and there is no sign of a tooth-comb.
    You have to get them specially made. I believe that when you are as hirsute as Robin Williams they are something of a necessity.

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