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General Chat Thread, I hate computers! in General; Originally Posted by synaesthesia dealing with XFX is head against wall stuff. XFX - i've had the best service from ...
  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by synaesthesia View Post
    dealing with XFX is head against wall stuff.

    XFX - i've had the best service from after they replaced my graphics card?

  2. #17

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Okay, RAID-0. It's not as bad as everyone makes out. If the choice is between 1 x 1000Gb hard drive or 2 x 500Gb in RAID-0 what the difference? answer speed. 2x500Gb in RAID-0 would be fast and everybit as reliable a single 1Tb hard drive.

    That said if you can afford to buy 4-drives for RAID-10 great - you get performance and redundancy! Question though - how meny home PC's have more than 1 HDD? and those that do - how meny are RAID'd at any level (inc. 0)? exactly!

    Money wise if it's a choice of 2xSATA drives in RAID-0 or 1xSDD then I'd go the RAID-0 route and have a ganda at the WD Raptor drives.

    Also I assume you're going Windows 7? If so have you looked at Readyboost? I'll bet a couple of Raptors in RAID-0 and a 2Gb Memorystick for Readyboost would blow the water out of (and be cheaper than) a decent size SDD.

    The other question I'd have is - is Crossfire/SLI really worth the extra money spent on it? Do you really get enough of a performance boost? Are there really enough games on the market that make good use of the technology? Wouldn't spending the money on a higher spec single card be better? I honestly don't know but thought it'd be worth asking the questions.

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    Techie101 (20th February 2010)

  4. #18

    synaesthesia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlweb View Post
    XFX - i've had the best service from after they replaced my graphics card?
    It will differ for all people - I've probably had to deal with them around 150 times since god knows when - half of them were difficult/problematic. Unfortunately few people will be as good to deal with as BFG, who are sadly now no longer operating in the EU Plus, google XFX RMA and you'll soon find just how many people suffer problems with the process. Naturally you'll not hear much good about stuff, you only hear the bad :/




    And to quote tmcd35 : "Okay, RAID-0. It's not as bad as everyone makes out. If the choice is between 1 x 1000Gb hard drive or 2 x 500Gb in RAID-0 what the difference? answer speed. 2x500Gb in RAID-0 would be fast and everybit as reliable a single 1Tb hard drive."

    True - it's the wording though. It's not going to fail in half the time a single drive would normally fail - but you have twice the hardware, twice the mechanics, twice the electronics to fail. Still doesn't make it twice as likely to fail though - things shouldn't just stop working without a reason. Besides which every person with half a braincell backs up any data they'd consider important

    Honestly though the F3's are definitely worth a look - great compromise for price and performance. Certainly not much slower than the Raptors and up to twice the capacity

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    Techie101 (20th February 2010)

  6. #19
    Midget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Okay, RAID-0. It's not as bad as everyone makes out. If the choice is between 1 x 1000Gb hard drive or 2 x 500Gb in RAID-0 what the difference? answer speed. 2x500Gb in RAID-0 would be fast and everybit as reliable a single 1Tb hard drive.
    not it's not! You've increased it's chance of failing by a factor of 2. If the single drive has a 1 in a 1000 chance of failing, in a RAID0 it's a 1 in 500 chance of failing as you are dependent on both drives working.

    Also if the drive does fail, you will not be able to recover data easily if at all. Recovering from 1 drive is simple, recovering from a raid0 requires both drives to work fully and together, else you cannot recover any data over the stripe size.

  7. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie101 View Post
    XFX ATI Radeon HD 5850 1GB
    XFX ATI Radeon HD 5850 1GB
    If you have a machine that will support multiple monitors you could have a play with getting it to support Debian with mutiple pointers... If you got NVidia cards instead you could also have a play with their snazzy new parallel-processing compiler.

    850W Coolermaster Silent Pro M850
    Antec Nine Hundred (Antec 900)
    There's little point in expecting that Antec 900 case to be "silent" - our backup server is made out of one, it sounds like a small plane taking off.

    --
    David Hicks

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    Techie101 (20th February 2010)

  9. #21

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midget View Post
    not it's not! You've increased it's chance of failing by a factor of 2. If the single drive has a 1 in a 1000 chance of failing, in a RAID0 it's a 1 in 500 chance of failing as you are dependent on both drives working.
    Personally I don't buy that argument. I see the logic, but it seems to me you are arguing that each drive is twice as likely to die because their are two of them. Maybe they'd last longer be cause each drive is now doing half the work than before?

    Yes you've increased the number of parts than can potentially fail, but you haven't increased the chances of the parts failing.

    Also if the drive does fail, you will not be able to recover data easily if at all. Recovering from 1 drive is simple, recovering from a raid0 requires both drives to work fully and together, else you cannot recover any data over the stripe size.
    This is an interesting one, and you are quiet right. However, as someone else pointed out, you'd be pretty stupid to leave sole copies of all your important data on one hard drive let alone a raid0 pair. If we're talking home PC's that only usually have 1 hard drive then I can't see what the real difference is other than a slight speed boost.

    If we're talking servers then it's a whole different kettle of fish and either RAID-1 or RAID-5 (or varients of) should be used everywhere.

  10. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    Personally I don't buy that argument.

    Yes you've increased the number of parts than can potentially fail, but you haven't increased the chances of the parts failing.
    Theres nothing to buy, its called probability.

    I have a bag with 9 green marbles and 1 red marble in it. You get 1 pick, if you get the red one you lose (or you get a duff HD).
    Now you decide you want raid0, so you get 2 picks. Are you telling me you are not twice* as likely to pick the duff marble?



    *Actually in this case its 1/10 + 1/9 as there are a finite number of marbles to choose from but in the case of HDs there wouldnt be...
    Last edited by j17sparky; 20th February 2010 at 10:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    Theres nothing to buy, its called probability.

    I have a bag with 9 green marbles and 1 red marble in it. You get 1 pick, if you get the red one you lose (or you get a duff HD).
    Now you decide you want raid0, so you get 2 picks. Are you telling me you are not twice* as likely to pick the duff marble?



    *Actually in this case its 1/10 + 1/9 as there are a finite number of marbles to choose from but in the case of HDs there wouldnt be...
    so, are you saying the OP would be better off buying an imac ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    so, are you saying the OP would be better off buying an imac ?
    Exactly. See, someone did A-level maths

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    Hi all

    Firstly thanks for all the advice, its always good to get as many differing opinions as possible.

    Ok, just a couple of things firstly, I won't be going with any GPU from XFX, from what I have read and heard they really are a nightmare to deal with, so the GPU I'll be getting will be either an Asus Radeon HD 5850 1GB or Sapphire Radeon HD 5850 1GB or even maybe the factory overclocked Sapphire ATI HD5850 Toxic 1GB, what to you guys think about those GPU's?

    SSD is out the question, just can't justify the cost just to save 30-50 seconds on system bootup or having Word load up 5 sec faster!

    VelociRaptor, again too expensive.

    Think I'll go with the RAID 0 setup, I understand that data can be lost if things go wrong but I am also planning on getting a 1TB drive and using that to take backup images of the RAID drives. At the moment I use Acronis True Image to back up my system and I assume it will also backup a RAID setup, please correct me if I am wrong.

    and tmcd35 to answer your question SLI/Crossfire does improve performance and overall FPS, even with current games, basically games will run smoother, but it may not be worth the extra expense. So for now I'll stick with one GPU and if in the future there is a need for more perfomance I'll stick in another 5850, the cost of the cards should have fallen by then also.

  14. #26

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j17sparky View Post
    Theres nothing to buy, its called probability.

    I have a bag with 9 green marbles and 1 red marble in it. You get 1 pick, if you get the red one you lose (or you get a duff HD).
    Now you decide you want raid0, so you get 2 picks. Are you telling me you are not twice* as likely to pick the duff marble?



    *Actually in this case its 1/10 + 1/9 as there are a finite number of marbles to choose from but in the case of HDs there wouldnt be...
    What are we arguing about? The chances of selecting 1 or 2 duff drives out of however meny a supplier has in stock? Or the chances of either drive developing a fault over x-hours use? I still don't think that by using raid-0 that your system is twice as likely to fail. You have increased the number of parts that can possibly fail - but you are also using each part for less of the time. 1 single drive should have double the iops of 1 drive in a raid-0 pair as the workload is spread across the two drives. Maybe 2 drives in raid-0 could last longer than 1 single drive? You're certainly in the same basic position if 1 drive fails - no data (yes data maybe retrevable from a single non-raid drive).

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    do you know how raid0 works? Data is written in stripes. if you have a 512kb stripe (most have this) and are writing 1mb of data, you have the same number of writes as if you are writing all 1mb to 1 drive.

    I've dealt with a huge number of RAID0 failures, and they're not always down to simply one hard drive dying. Software RAID0 for instance, is rubbish, but I assume that you'll have one of those basic RAID1/0 chips on most modern mobos.

    In this case if eeking an extra second from a game loading is what's required get 2 good 320GB SATA drives (WDs are about £35ea) and RAID0 them, and get a 1 or 2TB drive to store everything on.

    OS, progs and games go on the RAID0
    pr0n, ISOs, mp3s and divxs go on the standard HDD.

    Once it's set up make a ghost image of the RAID0 and stick that on the 1-2TB drive.

    When the RAID0 fails, you can easily get up and running again with 2 new cheap drives and sticking the image on and you don't lose your data which is always a PitA even if it isn't highly important.

  16. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Techie101 View Post
    Ok, just a couple of things firstly, I won't be going with any GPU from XFX, from what I have read and heard they really are a nightmare to deal with, so the GPU I'll be getting will be either an Asus Radeon HD 5850 1GB or Sapphire Radeon HD 5850 1GB or even maybe the factory overclocked Sapphire ATI HD5850 Toxic 1GB, what to you guys think about those GPU's?
    Can't talk about the GPU's, but I can say that I've had very good experiences with Asus GFX cards in general.

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  18. #29

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    Time to get the stuff ordered I think, after I get some more quotes.

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    Are you planning on taking over the world? or just gaming? lol
    I remember the days when I used to dream about putting a high powered pc together!
    Dont personally think its worth the money!

    So instead I concentrate on overclocking to get best bang for your buck.
    Looking at the amount your spending you could build yourself a nice media server and still have change
    left over for a very good overclocked system.

    Anyway just my opinion, good luck with the build!



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