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General Chat Thread, local government pay freeze in General; Originally Posted by ozzy It sucks, it'll cause no end of bad feeling within schools when teaching staff get a ...
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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy View Post
    It sucks, it'll cause no end of bad feeling within schools when teaching staff get a rise and the rest of us don't because the teachers make the school work teachers could'nt do there job without all support staff from the cleaner to the office staff. It's about time that the population of this country got to know that this is the case. And what makes the childrens education possible.
    what about the bad feeling where there are spending outlays of six figures for special projects [examples of which i've read on here recently], but at the same time we're led to believe, not enough in the govt. coffers to offer anything more than a below inflation increase for the same people who decide how some or all of that outlay is spent ?

    Sounds pretty daft to me.

    I guess the consolation is that spend is providing profits and [you'd hope] job security where it's spent . But how sustainable is that if there may be cuts in the future....or cuts elsewhere to protect such spending into the future ?

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    It's always going to be difficult when you can see big money being spent on "projects" but no money for even minor pay rises. You then get told "ah, yes - but that's capital funding and we can't use it for salaries" and at that point I get ready to explode; why can't we move money between the pots??

    I think (and I don't know - it's just speculation) that it's often easier to find money for a project because it's just a one off. If you give someone a pay rise then you have to pay it this year, next year and for ever more (and you probably have to pay another pay rise and so on)

    Even a pretty small pay rise costs a lot of money across everyone who gets it. Suppose you give 2% to every one and they have an average pay of £20,000. I think there are about 5000 secondary schools in the UK and lets say that they employ about 75 people each. That pay rise costs £150 million pounds which is quite a lot of money. Scale this up to all public sector employees and you're spending a very large amount of money which I'd guess is one reason why politicians start calling for a public sector pay freeze.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    It's always going to be difficult when you can see big money being spent on "projects" but no money for even minor pay rises. You then get told "ah, yes - but that's capital funding and we can't use it for salaries" and at that point I get ready to explode; why can't we move money between the pots??

    I think (and I don't know - it's just speculation) that it's often easier to find money for a project because it's just a one off. If you give someone a pay rise then you have to pay it this year, next year and for ever more (and you probably have to pay another pay rise and so on)

    Even a pretty small pay rise costs a lot of money across everyone who gets it. Suppose you give 2% to every one and they have an average pay of £20,000. I think there are about 5000 secondary schools in the UK and lets say that they employ about 75 people each. That pay rise costs £150 million pounds which is quite a lot of money. Scale this up to all public sector employees and you're spending a very large amount of money which I'd guess is one reason why politicians start calling for a public sector pay freeze.
    yes, the cumulative effect of small pay increases can be substantial, plus the on-costs of retaining staff and providing jobs alone is a serious outlay. I guess it's more convenient to make short, sharp spending commitments that get burned up rather than longer term commitments in staff and pay progression.

    but i'm with you in being frustrated by the nature of capital vs salary spending.

    How much salary spending is, for instance, going into maintaining a costly 'grey ceiling' which restricts opportunities for progression of younger staff on lower pay grades ? This goes back to what i was saying about who really is affected by these pay awards....

    then with revenue, why can't it be that projects and funds are bid for, with detailed costings and ideas behind them......rather than the scattergun 'here's 100k, you've got 6 months to spend it.' And then you've got people coming on the forum saying, 'i've got all this dough...any ideas'. That's not me having a go at these people, it just strikes me as a somewhat unintuitive way of going about allocating funds. But then i'm sure all this has been said before.

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    So no increase of living payment this year, yet our local council are putting up council tax!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sippo View Post
    So no increase of living payment this year, yet our local council are putting up council tax!
    They've gotta pay for all that grit somehow!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sippo View Post
    So no increase of living payment this year, yet our local council are putting up council tax!
    are you seeing any cost of living reductions elsewhere ie gas bills ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    Has anyone else noticed that loads of apparently 'wealthy' countries are in 'debt'? Seems a bit of a coincidence.
    it's no coincidence, the big countries are running deficits to support their economies, whereas if a country that doesn't sit at the top table needs to do the same, it sends the markets into a tizzy....

    take a look over at greece.

    BBC News - Greece hit by nationwide strike over austerity measures

    The move comes on top of other planned austerity measures, including a public sector salary freeze and a hike in petrol prices announced last week
    That sounds familiar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    are you seeing any cost of living reductions elsewhere ie gas bills ?
    Not £500 worth no.

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    The BBC have a work out your personal inflation rate based the goods / services you actually buy and mine has been running at 10% for about a year

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    BBC News - Personal inflation calculator

    For some reason, mine comes back as 0%. I know that isn't true!

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    Quote Originally Posted by laserblazer View Post
    BBC News - Personal inflation calculator

    For some reason, mine comes back as 0%. I know that isn't true!
    I guesstimated a bit, but mine is in minus figures, so I'm thinking it's broken!

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    If you've got a mortgage then it's likely your personal inflation will be negative, similarly if you spend a lot of money on gas/electricity (which have dropped in price)

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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    If you've got a mortgage then it's likely your personal inflation will be negative, similarly if you spend a lot of money on gas/electricity (which have dropped in price)
    whereas if you rent and pay council tax, i don't think a drop in gas/electric is going to reduce their personal inflation overall by very much.

    i don't think low IR's have been very fair in that respect.

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    Or if you were on a fixed mortgage agreeement...

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    Inflation now at 3.5%

    Bank of England Letter
    Chancellors Response

    Does anyone else think the Chancellors letter reads like "I know inflation is way above target and rising quickly but there is an election coming up in a few months therefore keep interest rates low and keep spending money".
    Last edited by somabc; 16th February 2010 at 11:59 AM.

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