Intelligent design?

[localzuk]

I find it very interesting that many people merrily believe (which actually cannot be proven only surmised) that at at one point in time the whole of matter including all planets and everything on them (buildings/people/animals/mountains/oceans/the whole kit and kaboodle) was so small that it would be smaller than a single electron...

And yet they find the concept of a virgin birth and creation difficult to comprehend...

One is based on observation and evidence. One is based on a game of chinese whispers in book form...

But isn't that the basis of all Physics theories? Work out what might be happening?

No, as the basis of science is 'we don't know' and working from there. We don't fill in gaps unless we have observed things.

[RinSewand]

On the mistranslation aspect of this - I'm sure somewhere that the Red Sea was actually ment to be the Reed Sea - which would be a lot easier to part when you think about it.

Also - science will always try and prove itself wrong. No scienctist worth their salt would come up with a theory, announce it, and have done with it, with all their peers going "ooo yeah, look, he's right'. They try constantly to disprove what they're saying, I've rarely heard that tried with religion.

[LosOjos]

im not so sure relegions do as such but you can read all sorts of things into whats said depending on your own mindset. As a simple example how many times have you had to reread a sentance as you read the word you were expecting to see rather than the actual word becsuse it looked smaller

I see what you're saying (like the examples at the end there too ), but these are direct quotes from the bible:

Genesis 19:4-8 : But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them." Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof."
(this story ends with him finding his daughter dead on his doorstep after having been brutally raped throughout the night)

Matthew 10:34-35 : "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household." (Jesus said that, what a nice guy eh?)

Exodus 21:2 : "When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing." (Hebrew slaves are cool with God!)

Exodus 21:7-8 : "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do." (As is selling off your daughter who, by the way, will then have less right to eventual freedom than the Hebrew slaves would)

Exodus 22:20 : "He that sacrificeth unto any god save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." (God is absolutely fine with ritual sacrifice, as long as it's to Him and not some other God)

And one of my favorites, said by Moses to his disciples after committing genocide against the Midianites:
Numbers 31:17 : "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."


Isn't the Catholic faith wonderful?

[RinSewand]

I'm supprised they had any time to BE religious considering the number of naps they aparently took with women who'd never been introduced to a man! (that's totally what those quotes were saying right? a quick cuddle and a snooze with someone from a female only commune?)

RwD

[LosOjos]

I'm supprised they had any time to BE religious considering the number of naps they aparently took with women who'd never been introduced to a man! (that's totally what those quotes were saying right? a quick cuddle and a snooze with someone from a female only commune?)

RwD

It amazes me that such a sexually crippled religion as Catholicism has so much sexual acts (mainly rape) in it's own bible!

[LosOjos]

Dailymotion - The Intelligence² Debate - Stephen Fry (Unedited) - a Film & TV video

[Hightower]

I see what you're saying (like the examples at the end there too ), but these are direct quotes from the bible:

Genesis 19:4-8 : But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them." Lot went out of the door to the men, shut the door after him, and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known man; let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please; only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof."
(this story ends with him finding his daughter dead on his doorstep after having been brutally raped throughout the night)

Matthew 10:34-35 : "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household." (Jesus said that, what a nice guy eh?)

Exodus 21:2 : "When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing." (Hebrew slaves are cool with God!)

Exodus 21:7-8 : "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do." (As is selling off your daughter who, by the way, will then have less right to eventual freedom than the Hebrew slaves would)

Exodus 22:20 : "He that sacrificeth unto any god save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." (God is absolutely fine with ritual sacrifice, as long as it's to Him and not some other God)

And one of my favorites, said by Moses to his disciples after committing genocide against the Midianites:
Numbers 31:17 : "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."


Isn't the Catholic faith wonderful?

It might look a tad better if you didn't pull those 'quotes' out of context. Typical media stunt - pull out the tasty details and leave the actual storyline behind, making it look much worse that it actually is.

[LosOjos]

It might look a tad better if you didn't pull those 'quotes' out of context. Typical media stunt - pull out the tasty details and leave the actual storyline behind, making it look much worse that it actually is.

Ok then, so how else are those verses supposed to be taken?

[fafster]

Smaller than a single electron is a bit of an exaggeration! But yeah we're currently composed of mostly nothing whatsoever. The distances between the components inside an atom are pretty vast, relatively speaking. It's not a stretch to think that they may possibly have been a lot closer at some point.

Quoting myself here, but I got curious. I wanted to work out the relative sizes of atomic bodies.

For example: If you took a Hydrogen atom, and expanded it so that its diameter was 100metres, i.e. the size of a football bitch, the proton at the centre would be just 1mm across. The rest is pretty much just empty space.

[nephilim]

Before someone else does something stupid....STOP RIGHT NOW.

Any article about religious texts will end badly on a forum, and I for one do not want to see this forum descend into that kind of idiocy.

[TronXP]

have to agree, the whole topic is simply designed for

[LosOjos]

Always the way, nobody is allowed to have an opinion on religion, we have to respect it and ignore the atrocities committed in its name.

This will be my last post in this thread (because I agree it is going to become flame bait, I know my comments haven't helped that but it is my opinion) so I'll end it with a quote:

We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.

[SpuffMonkey]

But isn't that the basis of all Physics theories? Work out what might be happening?

Yes - but then we need some proof that amounts to more than "because I said so..."

[Hightower]

Before someone else does something stupid....STOP RIGHT NOW.

I'm a big lad - I think I can control myself!

Besides, I love topics like these. Not to start an arguament and such, but to take on board what other people believe. I myself believe in the Good Lord - maybe not to the same level as the Pope, but enough to class myself as a Catholic. I know there are muslims, athiasts, budhists, sikhs and all other sorts of religious people browsing these forums - hell there may even be one or two Tom Cruises among us.

My point is this. Religion does not stop me getting along with these folks. I have made some good friends here. Talking about religion is merely a way to 'strengthen' these bonds. We have a discussion about what we believe is what, we respect each others beliefs, and we remain mates/colleagues.

Religion is a very big part in many peoples lives, even if they don't have a faith - why oh why should it be censored?

This thread was doing fine - wasn't no where near to getting out of hand so why should we stop talking about it?

[localzuk]

I agree - there's no reason for this to become a troll fest. It can be and is an interesting topic, so long as people don't start calling each other names etc...

My beef with this subject isn't the religious nature of it. It is the fact that Intelligent Design is being pushed as a scientific subject by redefining scientific method, or by claiming that the controversy over the subject should be taught.

Every time one of the arguments for ID is shown to be demonstably false (such as the Irreducible Complexity argument), proponents seem to either ignore it, or redefine the subject area so as to explain it away with pseudo science.