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General Chat Thread, Sparklebox on Inside Out (BBC) in General; Money can be generated in a zillion ways, so should we stop people like this ever earning any? This is ...
  1. #31

    Michael's Avatar
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    Money can be generated in a zillion ways, so should we stop people like this ever earning any?
    This is what I want to clarify. Someone who is convicted of an offense of this nature (in this example) is banned from schools and banned making contact with children. This should be extended further to include services to education in any capacity.

    As you put it, there are a zillion ways to make money operating a website. Don't you find it a little coincidental SB is aimed specifically at education? He's basically exploiting weaknesses in the law so police are unable to close SB at the current time.

  2. #32

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    Don't you find it a little coincidental SB is aimed specifically at education?
    What do you do when you've been kicked out of teaching, probably the only profession you've known, and have served time for a sexual offence? Sign on for long enough until they send you on a fork-lift truck driving course (be very lucky to get a job, so repeat ad infinitum)? Or use a transferable skill and employ yourself? OTOH perhaps there was some wicked motive as well, but I don't have a clue about that. Does anyone?

    This should be extended further to include services to education in any capacity.
    This could be a big extension e.g. SB produces stuff that people go and get then put on school walls, so does a paint factory.

    No one will be harmed by an SB resource. The actual problem as I see it: When some people see an SB logo in a school they will unavoidably be reminded of this story and whatever associations that brings them, which is absolutely not what you want happening in a school, especially when a small fraction of those people might get a bit aggravated. I agree with GD that it's not a good thing to be seen to "endorse" it either. So fine, filter the site and at the very least get the stuff with the logos off the walls.

  3. #33

    LeMarchand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    What do you do when you've been kicked out of teaching, probably the only profession you've known, and have served time for a sexual offence? Sign on for long enough until they send you on a fork-lift truck driving course (be very lucky to get a job, so repeat ad infinitum)? Or use a transferable skill and employ yourself?
    Sounds like a great idea. Why didn't he do just that in a way that wasn't going to directly involve education?

    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    This could be a big extension e.g. SB produces stuff that people go and get then put on school walls, so does a paint factory.
    The difference being that a paint factory isn't aimed specifically at schools. Mr Kinge chose to create a service directly aimed at schools. I don't think that anyone would object if S/D K went to work for Viking (Office Supply peeps) but alarm bells would be raised if he chose to work for Supplies for Schools. (Chosen purely because their catalogue is on my desk).

    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    No one will be harmed by an SB resource.
    Not directly, but the monies raised by the site were used to harm children.

  4. #34

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    The difference being that a paint factory isn't aimed specifically at schools.
    Agreed, but I was addressing "any capacity" not "aimed specifically at". Regardless, this appears to be a relatively unique scenario, I don't see the risk to children and I don't think it's worth throwing truckloads of dwindling public dosh at making some new law for it. Wouldn't it be better to chuck it at something like CEOPs education/awareness stuff instead?

    monies raised by the site were used to harm children.
    How so? I don't recall anything in the post-sentencing media reports about that.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    This is what I want to clarify. Someone who is convicted of an offense of this nature (in this example) is banned from schools and banned making contact with children. This should be extended further to include services to education in any capacity.

    As you put it, there are a zillion ways to make money operating a website. Don't you find it a little coincidental SB is aimed specifically at education? He's basically exploiting weaknesses in the law so police are unable to close SB at the current time.
    When you're banned from driving the last thing you do is get a job as a taxi driver!

  6. #36

    Michael's Avatar
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    When you're banned from driving the last thing you do is get a job as a taxi driver!
    Hehe indeed

  7. #37

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    When you're banned from driving the last thing you do is get a job as a taxi driver!
    When I run the universe I'll be criminalising motoring analogies. That just about works for say putting someone in charge of an orphanage.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    Agreed, but I was addressing "any capacity" not "aimed specifically at". Regardless, this appears to be a relatively unique scenario, I don't see the risk to children and I don't think it's worth throwing truckloads of dwindling public dosh at making some new law for it. Wouldn't it be better to chuck it at something like CEOPs education/awareness stuff instead?

    How so? I don't recall anything in the post-sentencing media reports about that.
    Part 1: I agree, but surely a judge could/should add some sort of codicil to the sentencing of people like Mr Kinge to prevent his involvement in businesses that involve children/child education? If it can be specified that he has to have police monitoring for net activity (not sure how they plan to do that - what's to stop him visiting a friend/relative and using their machine?) then why not that he has to run any business plan etc past the police or some other suitable body/person?

    Part 2: Sparklebox was Mr Kinge's source of income. Mr Kinge is a paedophile. Even if you argue that the pictures he collected were from free sources (highly unlikely) and think that his trips to orphanages in a third world country were purely altruistic (the police don't seem to be happy about his visits), at the very least the site financed his net connection. He used this to obtain child abuse pictures and to visit a child abuse website. He also created photos, so even if there were no other costs involved the money from Sparklebox financed the equipment used.

  9. #39

    russdev's Avatar
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    To be honest there is one big issue with SB and that is the site allows students to upload profiles and pictures which he as owner had access to ALL.

    This gives me a big head start when grooming kids if he has got some information on it.

    Russ

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiqueABoo View Post
    Wouldn't it be better to chuck it at something like CEOPs education/awareness stuff instead?
    I think having CEOP accreditation would work a treat for such sites. Quite why the other staff at Sparklebox haven't already created their own new site and asked for the likes of CEOP to accredit them to reassure users is puzzling me.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    You're right also that although he's in prison he will continue to profit, however in light of the negative publicity this opens the doors for another company to provide the same/similar resources. It's only a matter of time before this happens as I don't think many LAs will tolerate their material used in classrooms.
    Now that's a good idea.

  12. #42

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    Its been Youtubed
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8kliX6NCBY"]YouTube- Sparklebox Report[/ame]

    I'm going to take a copy into my schools and see if it changes any minds of people who just want it unblocked again.

    regards

    Simon

  13. #43

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    the police don't seem to be happy about his visits
    If you're part of the system that helps prevent someone having contacts with kids in this country, I can't see you being happy with them doing that elsewhere. You're either concerned about their conduct everywhere, or just paying lip service. I don't think you can reasonably read anything else (e.g. we think he did X), into that unhappiness.

    He also created photos
    This is what I said in an earlier SB thread when someone else was quite reasonably misled by this: AIUI in a nutshell: The original CP relevant law was largely focused on production not consumption i.e. "making" was closer to the usual dictionary sense. Then PCs and the net introduced new problems but the law lagged behind, so around the turn of the century the existing legal meaning was stretched a bit : Viewing an existing image on a computer screen is an example of "making", so is copying say a JPG file from one computer to another.

    the site allows students to upload profiles and pictures
    Where can they do that or has that functionality been disappeared? Again, who actually used the site given that it's a teacher's favourite and would any kid of grooming age ( Yahoo Kids! says it's around 11-15 yrs because that's when they get to go places by themselves) want to hang around with lots of Primary teachers on a Primary resources site? Did any students ever upload ther photos?

    I think that's a perfectly credible argument if you have a blanket policy to deny student access to those kind of features on any site where you find them. But if you have that then why wasn't it blocked already?

    I think having CEOP accreditation would work a treat for such sites.
    I agree. Do they (or anyone else) do that?

  14. #44
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    The scare mongering has begun throughout the country, our HT had an email from a "professional" in another lea, who said that a friend of her mums who is a teacher (i kid you not) said "it had been rumored that by accessing this website and downloading free resources the owner could then access any images on your computer"

    I agree that the site should not be accessed etc but how long before we cant see the wood from the trees and teachers start running around saying the "sky is falling" as they have used sparklebox on their home pc's?

  15. #45

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    That is why a consistent message needs to be sent out. I've already outlined the points that I raise with any schools who call in for more information (not included in LA / RBC guidance).
    1 - The lack of registration for data protection
    2 - The lack of contactability for those working on / running the site
    3 - The lack of knowledge about the plans for the site including any content shared by the school (ie IPR, copyright, etc)

    This is before the 'moral' aspect of the site ... but if that is what people are confused around then all I would personally say is that I would not use the site directly but access the resources via one of the mirrors. This avoids the issue about whether people believe they are contributing to the lifestyle of the S/D K, and personally, until I get a bit more info about how the company is run I really can't start talking about whether this means the staff at the site will lose their jobs due to lack of revenue ...

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