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General Chat Thread, Arnold Clark Made a Boo Boo in General; Evening/Morning, I was hoping that some of you nice people could just give me some advice on where i stand ...
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    EduTech's Avatar
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    Arnold Clark Made a Boo Boo

    Evening/Morning,

    I was hoping that some of you nice people could just give me some advice on where i stand with this problem i have, i know morally i need to get it sorted as it is wrong but just curious at where i stand from a legal point of view.

    I brought a Vauxhall Corsa D 58 Plate from Arnold Clark back in December, on finance ofcourse and i signed on the dotted lines for everything as told to by the Sales guy i was dealing with.

    I Received a phone call Friday asking if i could go in to the dealer as i needed to sign the finance paperwork again as they (arnold clark) made a mistake and got me to sign in all the wrong places which has lead to the Finance Company voiding the fiance agreement.

    So, the car has legally been given to me buy arnold clark as all that paperwork was done correct i have the car in my name in terms of the log book but nothing has been paid for the car, the finance company will not give arnold clark the money as it is now void and obviously will also not charge me the montly payments as nothing is in place.

    Technically i have done nothing wrong as i have not just walked into arnold clark and given them anything false, they have made a big error and are now trying to put it right so that they get there money, but what if i was not to go in to sign this paperwork? what would happen as i have done nothing wrong?

    I know that i should go back and sort the problem out so that they get there money.

    I am just curious thats all at where i stand from a legal point of view if i was to lets say not go back? would they just take it further and i would end up paying it anyway? (probably i would say)...?

    They have yet to finish there part of the deal anyway, i.e. give me my car matt's and refurb the alloy wheels that were slightly damage but part of the deal so they have messed me around good and proper anyway

    any advice is appriated, i know what i should do as it is morally the right thing hehe but technically they have just give me the car at the moment lol!

    Cheers,

    James.

  2. #2
    Snuffkins's Avatar
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    No car matts you say and they had the gall not to refurb your wheels. In that case I'd definitely not go back. After treating you so badly they don't deserve the 8 grand for the car.

    If I don't tell you that's sarcasm you'll probably think I'm being serious...

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    EduTech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snuffkins View Post
    No car matts you say and they had the gall not to refurb your wheels. In that case I'd definitely not go back. After treating you so badly they don't deserve the 8 grand for the car.

    If I don't tell you that's sarcasm you'll probably think I'm being serious...
    I know what they have not done is silly things you phyco! lol especially to me saying ah just wright of 8k because you messed everything up!... I am just curious! go to ruddy bed anyway past your bed time

  4. #4

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Interesting from a legal standpoint, they may possibly have recourse through contract law if they pursued it depending on the wording of the change of ownership papers and if there was a seporate sales contract that was not messed up. There is also presumably an active verbal contract in play as well.

    If the change of ownership papers specified the method of transfer as sale then for the sale contract to be binding it would require an exchange of capital. Even if this is just a dollar it is still required to be a binding sale.

    If there was another sales contract just for them seporate of the finance one then you would definatly still be on the hook no matter how badly they messed the finance contract.

    I assume that you also agreed verbally with the sales staff to pay a certain amount in exchange for the car which is also binding but much more difficult to prove.

    Either way there is a very high likelyhood that even though you are the named owner that they still retain full finantial interest in the vehicle and could reclaim it via the courts.

    If you managed to get out avoiding all of these things then you may possibly be in the clear assumuing that UK contract law is like NZs.

    Of course the moral and probably sensible thing would be to go back and hold them to their end of the contract making them do the things they promised for expediance in dealing with the finantial end without legal action. Depending on the exact situation this is probably how I would handle it.

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    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Of course the moral and probably sensible thing would be to go back and hold them to their end of the contract making them do the things they promised for expediance in dealing with the finantial end without legal action. Depending on the exact situation this is probably how I would handle it.
    I would get them to do the matts and all the other bits and pieces first that they promised before sorting out the financial paperwork side and maybe that will prompt them to get it done quicker.

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    SYSMAN_MK's Avatar
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    The first place to look would be the terms and conditions of sale.

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Remember that on a finance agreement you do not own the property in entirity until you have paid up fully. At present, although you may not have signed in the right place for the sales to get the money from finance, you may have done enough to say you agree to take control of the car but under the bi-partite agrement for ownership with the finance firm. The only people that would be able to say exactly are contract lawyers ... And they get expensive.

    It would be a big risk to not do the paperwork, as that jeopardises the whole ownership side of things but if the car firm has not completed their part of the deal for matts etc then it might be worth pointing out that you are hapy to come and sign the paperwork since you had expected a call about your missing bits, and wouldn't it be nice to do it all at the same time!

    You could also ask CAB too for advice.

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    maniac's Avatar
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    I would just go sign it or they will get the car back as it's still officially their property, they could just come with a removal truck and take it and there's nowt you can do about it. Whether they messed up the finance agreement or not, the simple fact is the vehicle has not been paid for so they do still own the vehicle.

    The name on the logbook means sweet FA and does not constitute legal ownership of a vehicle - they use the term "registered keeper" on the Logbook to try and avoid this confusion.

    Mike.
    Last edited by maniac; 24th January 2010 at 12:24 PM.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maniac View Post
    I would just go sign it or they will get the car back as it's still officially their property, they could just come with a removal truck and take it and there's nowt you can do about it. Whether they messed up the finance agreement or not, the simple fact is the vehicle has not been paid for so they do still own the vehicle.

    The name on the logbook means sweet FA and does not constitute legal ownership of a vehicle - they use the term "registered keeper" on the Logbook to try and avoid this confusion.

    Mike.
    so what would/could denote the legal title of ownership in an instance such as this with the OP's vehicle ?

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    mossj's Avatar
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    I'd tell them your sign it when you have your mats/alloys... otherwise your just to busy to go down to the dealership to fix their mistake.

    If you want to push your luck, ask for more money to be taken off to remburse you for the extra time/petrol/effort it takes to go back down to the dealership.

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    EduTech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossj View Post
    I'd tell them your sign it when you have your mats/alloys... otherwise your just to busy to go down to the dealership to fix their mistake.

    If you want to push your luck, ask for more money to be taken off to remburse you for the extra time/petrol/effort it takes to go back down to the dealership.
    I was thinking of doing that, i have been back and forth from the dealership now more than 15 times i should think it's beginning to be an annoyance now.

    But yah i was gonna push my luck slightly and ask for more money off or even better 0% Finance hehe

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    CSNM-Carl's Avatar
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    They've admitted that they have made a mistake and want you to go in and sort it. So do the right thing and go and sign the paperwork.

    If you don't go in and sign it, they will just arrange for the car to be towed away as it doesn't belong to you - simple!

  13. #13

    EduTech's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replys guys, i know the right thing to do i aint one for doing things the wrong way but with me not being so bright on these kind of things so just wanted to throw the question in.

    I have just gave them a ring and have arranged to have a meeting with the General Manager on Monday after work.

    James.

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    so what would/could denote the legal title of ownership in an instance such as this with the OP's vehicle ?
    If the OP does not have legal paperwork to say he has paid for it, or is in the process of paying for it then it falls back to the manufacturer's trail of ownership, which is supported by details from DVLA of the registered keeper.

    The registered keeper does not have to be the owner ... but they are the person responsible to the tax, MOT and insurance. They are also responsible of making sure that all drivers are fit and proper, and the the driver accepts responsibility that the car is in their care when they take it on the road, and that they are responsible for all actions whilst driving.

    This is why forces, the emergency services, professional drivers (driving company vehicles) have to sign for them before driving.

    It gets terribly legal and some people get paid serious money to do contracts for rental cars, finance agreements, etc.

    I have missed some chunks out of above actually ... but they are not likely to be relevant in this case.

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    Edu-IT's Avatar
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    Tell them you don't want the car anymore and go somewhere that won't mess you about.

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