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General Chat Thread, Why? in General; Originally Posted by witch *sigh* Did you not read what I said? Plainly not. Quite happy with discussion, but not ...
  1. #46
    richard_s
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    *sigh* Did you not read what I said? Plainly not.
    Quite happy with discussion, but not in the jobs thread, as it can be unproductive and discourage people from posting jobs. AND information about said job gets lost in the general melee.
    Sorry but what is the point of then if we cannot post directly to the thread in question. It now seems like the mods are trying to dictate what we can and cannot say on on those posts and we all know where it can lead.

  2. #47
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    Christ, if people are getting upset over that sort of thing then I would hate to see what trivial comment really sets them off.....
    come on mattx, have you not read the sign on the front door.......sneering is not helpful.

  3. Thanks to torledo from:

    mattx (19th January 2010)

  4. #48
    mossj's Avatar
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    getting dangerously close to godwins law here

    p.s It's rarely the advertisers that post it onto the forum, and when they do it's rarely anyone that has any control of the spec or pay. So why not discuss it?

    If they don't want a discussion around it go post it elsewhere...
    Last edited by mossj; 19th January 2010 at 06:34 PM.

  5. #49

    mattx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossj View Post
    getting dangerously close to godwins law here

    p.s It's rarely the advertisers that post it onto the forum, and when they do it's rarely anyone that has any control of the spec or pay. So why not discuss it?

    If they don't want a discussion around it go post it elsewhere...
    I don't blame Hitler, I blame Thatcher.

  6. #50
    IanT's Avatar
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    Wow, this thread still going, didnt know I was gonna cause a fuss!!

  7. #51

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard_s View Post
    Sorry but what is the point of then if we cannot post directly to the thread in question. It now seems like the mods are trying to dictate what we can and cannot say on on those posts and we all know where it can lead.
    Maybe I'm missing something but I thought the point of that part of the forum was to make us aware of jobs we may be interested in.

    Surely if we want to gripe about pay it'd be better taken to a seperate thread. I can't see what us being discontented with our pay and the general state of the education IT sector has to do with job offers.

    If we are interested in the job but don't like the pay then we should take it up with the school directly rather than complain in the post. I did with both my previous applications and talked the schools involved into making better pay offers to me before I accepted the jobs. If the job doesn't pay enough and they won't budge then don't apply.

    As for griping about pay it's been done to death before any way, getting a little old news now.
    Last edited by tmcd35; 19th January 2010 at 07:13 PM.

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    witch (19th January 2010)

  9. #52
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanT View Post
    Wow, this thread still going, didnt know I was gonna cause a fuss!!
    welcome to an internet forum. Sometimes the most inconspicuous of threads run for quite a few pages, some of it insightful, some of it pointless, some ridiculous......but only on here do such threads seem to create such a problem for some, and any alternate opinion a threat to the well orchestrated happy clappyness. And must eventually be locked otherwise you run the risk that someone without a pair decides to take offence, usually on someone else's part.

    I don't think we're at that stage just yet, but you get a fair idea of the one[s] most likely to come thundering in with their size 9's to tell everyone to grow up and how they are right.

    but yes, i can see why your surprised it's still going. Me posting doesn't help, obviously. not 'helpful'

  10. #53
    IanT's Avatar
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    oh well, life goes on.

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    torledo (19th January 2010)

  12. #54

    russdev's Avatar
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    I am going to let this thread ride a bit (as long people play nice) to get peoples views but I would like to make one point very clear the mods are following a rule set by admins.

    Please continue as before..

  13. #55
    mb2k01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russdev View Post
    I am going to let this thread ride a bit (as long people play nice) to get peoples views but I would like to make one point very clear the mods are following a rule set by admins.

    Please continue as before..
    Rules that, unless i've missed something, none of the non-admin community have been either consulted on, OR had the opportunity to see listed anywhere....

    See my earlier post and it's link to my previous discussion.

  14. #56
    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    *sigh* Did you not read what I said? Plainly not.
    Is the contempt entirely necessary?


    Quite happy with discussion, but not in the jobs thread, as it can be unproductive and discourage people from posting jobs. AND information about said job gets lost in the general melee.
    FWIW, I do not support the previously observed heavy handed moderation of the jobs forum whilst it is an open forum, which it is.

    If a discussion is to take place in there about jobs, then it should be allowed to take place, albeit within the confines that moderation brings, i.e. no personal attacks, race hate, ad infinitum.

    So, we either leave it as an open forum, or don't.

    Personally, I would like to see separate 'jobs vacant' and 'jobs discussion' forums.

    The only reservation I have about not having a dedicated forum, is that, for example, discussing jobs in "General chat" risks the same fate of the thread being lost in the melee due to the volume of other threads being posted. Therefore, I think a dedicated forum for jobs discussion alone is required.

    I appreciate you are perhaps little more in the Edugeek organisation than a forum moderator, but if you feel there is a just cause, maybe you could take up the gauntlet and actually do something about the problem instead of simply 'moderating' the forum to a level which it would appear is not entirely to the satisfaction of some of your peers, FWIW, me included.



    .

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    RingOfFlame (20th January 2010)

  16. #57
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theeldergeek View Post
    Is the contempt entirely necessary?
    with that particular poster, it appears, more often than not...ditto the exasperated tone. LOL.

  17. #58

    localzuk's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what the problem is with this entire subject? The jobs that are posted are there to advertise posts, not as a catalyst for discussions about pay. What is the value of shouting about pay on posts? All it does is make advertisers of jobs say 'well, people on that site don't want us to post' and end up not posting here. How would that aid this site or its membership? It doesn't at all.

    As far as I can see, leaving it as just a post seems like a good idea. Discussions aren't usually on topic to that job anyway after a few posts - they just turn into 'we don't get paid enough' posts.

  18. #59
    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by russdev View Post
    I am going to let this thread ride a bit (as long people play nice) to get peoples views but I would like to make one point very clear the mods are following a rule set by admins.

    Please continue as before..
    Can this rule please be made available to all to see?

    Surely, we either all 'play nice' on a level field, or we don't 'play' at all?

    In another thread, it has been declared that this is a community of 'geeks for geeks', and we have all played a part in what Edugeek has become.

    Whilst we clearly do need to have moderators, it is completely and utterly pointless to have contributors to a discussion who have absolutely no idea if they are about to be chastised or not because the moderators are following a seemingly unknown rule set by the admins.

    That is quite simply a "them and us" scenario, and given the community that Edugeek is, I find that quite unpalatable.

    If we ALL stick to the forum rules (nothing obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, personal attacks or otherwise in violation of any laws) and the rest of know what this rule is then there shouldn't be a problem. When, and only when a rule is violated, should a moderator step in.

    This is Edugeek for heavens sake, we are 'in' this together, we are not the general public wandering into any old forum we happen across.

    I was quite taken aback with one moderator who displayed such an air of self-importance at BETT simply because they are a moderator it was quite remarkable! I won't divulge the details here as it isn't appropriate, but I was left quite aghast at the time.

    Aren't moderators there to see fair play, not censor opinion in an open forum simply because the discussion content isn't to their liking, which seems to have been the problem according to some posts being made?

    This discussion needs to be had, even if it does leave a nasty taste in the mouth, because it concerns the future of Edugeek and in particular how the Jobs forum is going to be taken forward.

    Does it remain an open discussion forum which is properly moderated, or does it become a closed forum in which only those advertising jobs are permitted to post?

    .

  19. Thanks to theeldergeek from:

    RingOfFlame (20th January 2010)

  20. #60

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb2k01 View Post
    Rules that, unless i've missed something, none of the non-admin community have been either consulted on, OR had the opportunity to see listed anywhere....

    See my earlier post and it's link to my previous discussion.
    Hate to say it ... but EG is not strictly a democracy. DB, in his ineffable wisdom, has a team of Admins. He has also happily been supported by Mods too. Modding is done on a voluntary basis and the general guidelines get talked about by Mods and Admins. Pretty much like a lot of other forums out there really.

    The rule about jobs and not having a go at the salary *in the same thread* was discussed by Mods and Admins quite a while a go, when I was still there actually, and the idea was put that stifling the discussion completely would be a bad thing, but giving the flames a free rein was a bad thing too.

    Guess what ... a compromise was reached and the idea of creating another thread if you want to discuss the salary was agreed. Discussions about the job itself, the interview process, the school and its activities, where it sees itself in years to come etc ... fine, in the same thread ... the repeated gnashing of teeth about the plight of under paid workers (and yes, many are) can go into another thread.

    DB like the idea ... and as far as I have seen still does.

    The whole process of discussing salaries against job descriptions has some merit ... but at times it verges on attacks on the OP ... someone who might have no control and would dearly love to increase it .. but does not have the authority so is trying to do the best they can.

    It was a compromise ... and was fine until it got repeatedly abused. Mods have said ZH is looking into what can be done, most people have said that they still want to discuss things (following good nettiquette) so how about just leaving it for a bit until a technical solution is put forward.

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