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General Chat Thread, Slapped Wrist in General; Originally Posted by pete Plenty of people (myself included) shoot themselves in the foot enough times - a decent solution ...
  1. #16

    vikpaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Plenty of people (myself included) shoot themselves in the foot enough times - a decent solution to however we've broken $foo is more appreciated than someone pointing out we're a 'tard and the product's invincible. You can point out we're a prat once you've helped us fix the problem .
    Good point.

    I think emphasising the solution would be more helpful than reiterating "I'm here to change the way you think", or "I'm fed up of people misunderstanding SIMS" etc. I think the problem some people have is that they feel you are telling them off, or implying they don't have enough training / understanding. Yes it may be true, but that is the case in some schools. There are misunderstandings and quite often from Capita staff. Most users don't have your contacts, so if their LA / Capita rep tells them something they have to take it as given.

    It's good that you correct these misconceptions, however if you can do that without preaching (dont take offense at that word), less people will have their noses out of joint, and therefore be more willing to listen to what you have got to say. This is positive constructive criticism. If you can find a way to get through to more people you will be more successful on your mission, so don't take any actions taken as negative or against you, they are for the good of the community.

    On a lighter note, since Pete mentioned shooting yourself in the foot:

    Programmer's quick guide to the languages

  2. Thanks to vikpaw from:

    witch (9th December 2009)

  3. #17
    Sivadam's Avatar
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    That is fine Vic - as long as you address the other problem that I referred to and which you have moderated off of my posts so that others cannot see what the fuss was about! Maybe you can enlighten them!

    Also, please advise others that making a statement that SIMS 'WILL NOT' do something will illicit a similar response to those I normally post, if it is an untrue statement. As with SupportNet, if contributors ask HOW to do something then they will most likely get a positive answer - and I will probably be one of those making that positive answer!

    I have been accused of waging a crusade. If that is how people want to view it then fine!
    If somebody is extremely negative about something that they have no understanding of then I will correct them. If you want to remove me from Edugeek because of this then so be it! In my humble opinion these forums will be the poorer as a result!
    As I have said many times - my many posts on SupportNet are testamy to how positive and helpful I can be. As a regular contributor to SupportNet yourself you know this. I had great respect for you before this but I must admit to that respect now being a little tarnished!
    I make a brilliant ally but I am capable of being the most formidable enemy you will ever meet!
    Last edited by Sivadam; 9th December 2009 at 08:40 AM.

  4. #18
    AyatollahPies's Avatar
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    I think you should get a slapped wrist for repeatedly calling the beautiful game 'Soccer'.

  5. Thanks to AyatollahPies from:

    Sivadam (9th December 2009)

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    GREED's Avatar
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    Me thinks somewhat this thread is degrading into the same pit as the last??

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    Sivadam (9th December 2009)

  8. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GREED View Post
    Me thinks somewhat this thread is degrading into the same pit as the last??
    Sorry Graham,
    There was no need for Vic to publicly criticise me again directly in a Forum.
    How can I ignore that?
    He could just as easily have pm'd me again!

  9. #21

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    Possibly he's responding as you're kicking up such a fuss?

    He's perfectly entitled to explain what his outlook is.

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    Sivadam (9th December 2009)

  11. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Possibly he's responding as you're kicking up such a fuss?

    He's perfectly entitled to explain what his outlook is.
    As am I ............

  12. #23

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Sivadam - the problem as I see it is this - you seem to hold the position that SIMS.net and Capita can do no wrong. That is the way your posts come across and your attitude when someone challenges that is one of indignation. You seem to take it almost personally.

    The simple fact of the matter is that SIMS.net is not perfect, Capita and their support system is not perfect. People at Capita sometimes send out mixed messages, or say the wrong thing. This then causes strife on the ground in schools. Throw in LEA SIMS support teams and you enter a whole 'Chinese whispers' world of pain.

    Whilst you have contacts that not everyone has, and you've had an excellent response from the SupportNet site, others don't and haven't. (I'd be one of them with regards to supportnet, I've asked a few questions on there in the past with only 1 or 2 responses across them all, some of them simply being ignored).

    The method of change requests used by Capita is much like the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy 'plans on display in a locked cabinet in a room in a basement' method... Most users know nothing about the site. Searching CR's is near impossible etc...

    So, people get upset, that's understandable. You don't know the exact situation they're in, so why get all flustered about it? It just gets you in trouble.

  13. 3 Thanks to localzuk:

    Domino (9th December 2009), Sivadam (9th December 2009), vikpaw (9th December 2009)

  14. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Sivadam - the problem as I see it is this - you seem to hold the position that SIMS.net and Capita can do no wrong. That is the way your posts come across and your attitude when someone challenges that is one of indignation. You seem to take it almost personally.

    The simple fact of the matter is that SIMS.net is not perfect, Capita and their support system is not perfect. People at Capita sometimes send out mixed messages, or say the wrong thing. This then causes strife on the ground in schools. Throw in LEA SIMS support teams and you enter a whole 'Chinese whispers' world of pain.

    Whilst you have contacts that not everyone has, and you've had an excellent response from the SupportNet site, others don't and haven't. (I'd be one of them with regards to supportnet, I've asked a few questions on there in the past with only 1 or 2 responses across them all, some of them simply being ignored).

    The method of change requests used by Capita is much like the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy 'plans on display in a locked cabinet in a room in a basement' method... Most users know nothing about the site. Searching CR's is near impossible etc...

    So, people get upset, that's understandable. You don't know the exact situation they're in, so why get all flustered about it? It just gets you in trouble.
    This explains the mods position very well. We don't want you to go away, you are very useful and you are right, your input has meant that there have been far fewer SIMS issues of late, which is great.
    We would just like a little give and take - as localzuk says, other people do NOT have your contacts and have not had the response from the various agencies re SIMS that I'm sure you would have liked them to have, and so are perhaps a little more upset and irrational than they would normally be.

  15. 2 Thanks to witch:

    Sivadam (9th December 2009), vikpaw (9th December 2009)

  16. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Sivadam - the problem as I see it is this - you seem to hold the position that SIMS.net and Capita can do no wrong. That is the way your posts come across and your attitude when someone challenges that is one of indignation. You seem to take it almost personally.

    The simple fact of the matter is that SIMS.net is not perfect, Capita and their support system is not perfect. People at Capita sometimes send out mixed messages, or say the wrong thing. This then causes strife on the ground in schools. Throw in LEA SIMS support teams and you enter a whole 'Chinese whispers' world of pain.

    Whilst you have contacts that not everyone has, and you've had an excellent response from the SupportNet site, others don't and haven't. (I'd be one of them with regards to supportnet, I've asked a few questions on there in the past with only 1 or 2 responses across them all, some of them simply being ignored).

    The method of change requests used by Capita is much like the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy 'plans on display in a locked cabinet in a room in a basement' method... Most users know nothing about the site. Searching CR's is near impossible etc...

    So, people get upset, that's understandable. You don't know the exact situation they're in, so why get all flustered about it? It just gets you in trouble.


    Quote Originally Posted by witch View Post
    This explains the mods position very well. We don't want you to go away, you are very useful and you are right, your input has meant that there have been far fewer SIMS issues of late, which is great.
    We would just like a little give and take - as localzuk says, other people do NOT have your contacts and have not had the response from the various agencies re SIMS that I'm sure you would have liked them to have, and so are perhaps a little more upset and irrational than they would normally be.
    I thank you for those very kind words. I am glad I am making a difference. I would assume that this has been because of the way I have approached this. If others are now thinking twice before they post 'issues' then this has all been well worth it!

    I agree with much of what you say - but I would also like to point out that Capita make requests every year, via SupportNet, for Users to attend their Software Consultation meetings when CRs are discussed. I would have thought that those Users with particular issues/concerns would have been the first to volunteer. There are obviously limits to the numbers that can attend these meetings but this is the Forum where such issues can be raised! How many contributors here have actually volunteered for a Software Consultation Meeting and been turned down? Relatively few I would suggest! Of course Capita's Support System is not perfect - tell me one that is. Getting so many people to sing exactly the identical words from an identical hymn sheet would be impossible. It is the task of all of us to help each other - and that is exactly what I try to do! And quite successfully I may add!

    However, I think you have missed the point I was making in the first place - which is why my Posts were 'Moderated'. Others cannot see this now and so are making assumptions on what I have said after I was admonished, and not on what the original issue was!

    As far as I am concerned this is now finished - unless somebody else personally attacks me.
    In which case I reserve the right to come back to them - as I keep doing right now!
    Last edited by Sivadam; 9th December 2009 at 11:04 AM.

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    dalsoth (9th December 2009)

  18. #26
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    Had mods edit the odd post or two because they found certain non offensive political words or phrases offensive. I guess the "nobody is perfect" thing is true of mods too. It is frustrating when they edit things which you truly believe should stand as they were. Especially when the things they "edit" completely change the tone of the post and thus make you look bad. Every forum has problems though so i guess you have to live with it unfortunately.

    I think there should be a balanced view but sometimes when you rant about a company or service you should appreciate that for every upset customer there is another who may be happy. The happy customers will defend a product if they feel the complaint is not down to the product or service itself but down to some other outside source, be it lack of training, product knowledge, or as mentioned, failure to get involved and improve the product when given opportunities.

    Even with all of that, things will still go wrong and i would rather have someone trying to help find a solution than others just adding to the complaints without posting something that may help(not talking about general moans about teachers as there is no way to fix them but rather product complaints).

  19. Thanks to dalsoth from:

    Sivadam (9th December 2009)

  20. #27

    GREED's Avatar
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    Did no one read my post above about the analogy with football teams...

    I would like to throw in at that point... well done Owen - hat-trick hero!

  21. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GREED View Post
    Did no one read my post above about the analogy with football teams...

    I would like to throw in at that point... well done Owen - hat-trick hero!
    I remember some naff Sheffield team mentioned and Doncaster!! Both forgettable! Oh and yeah, love Owen, although I want him back in for England he needs more games to get into his stride and I doubt he will get many with Berb and Rooney favoured. A shame because i have always been a fan and think we could lose Crouch and take Owen and Defoe to the WC. I will shut up now though as this is not really a footy thread and i am probably gonna get some flame war about footie started up

  22. #29

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    It's got to be better than the stone cold atmosphere in this thread...

  23. #30
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    Ok then, Come on you Spurs!!!!!!!!

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