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General Chat Thread, Holiday entitlement / xmas in General; Hi All, For those of you that are Full Time 52wks... ...Assuming you get your 22 or 28 days holiday ...
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    mb2k01's Avatar
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    Holiday entitlement / xmas

    Hi All,

    For those of you that are Full Time 52wks...
    ...Assuming you get your 22 or 28 days holiday allocation, what happens at Christmas time?

    Essentially I want to find out if the school is "closed for all staff", does that time (minus the statutory public holidays) come out of your entitlement?

    Example: End of term = December 19th, Start of term Janurary 4th. Total of 10 weekdays, but 7 minus the three statutory puclic holidays. Do you then have to take 7 days out of your holiday entitlement?

    My reason for asking is basically because I can't quite grasp the concept of having an entitlement yet being forced to take days out of what you are entiteled to! I'm hoping your replies will help me understand either way!)

    Cheers

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    Ask your employer. I do know of places that say you have to keep a couple of days for christmas, but to tell you to take 7 because they are shutting is a bit harsh in my opinion. I have always taken school closed for all staff to include me and my holidays are taken outside this enforced time. If you can only take your holidays outside of term time, I think it's only fair that you can pick these times, and not be told by the school.

    You wont be the only one who has asked this before so just find out who you need to speak to in your school to clarify it.

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    bossman's Avatar
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    @mb2k01:

    Staff in our LA get 22 days holiday plus 5 bank holidays and the likes of Christmas day, Boxing day and New years day are classed as Bank Holidays so they are part of the 5 days allowance for this.

    As for the rest of the holidays if the school closes down which I would say most do then you are required to take the holidays from your normal holiday allowance.

    P.S. harsh I know when you compare the teachers holidays but that is education for you.

  4. #4
    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb2k01 View Post
    Hi All,

    For those of you that are Full Time 52wks...
    ...Assuming you get your 22 or 28 days holiday allocation, what happens at Christmas time?

    Essentially I want to find out if the school is "closed for all staff", does that time (minus the statutory public holidays) come out of your entitlement?

    Example: End of term = December 19th, Start of term Janurary 4th. Total of 10 weekdays, but 7 minus the three statutory puclic holidays. Do you then have to take 7 days out of your holiday entitlement?

    My reason for asking is basically because I can't quite grasp the concept of having an entitlement yet being forced to take days out of what you are entiteled to! I'm hoping your replies will help me understand either way!)

    Cheers
    Your employer can govern when you take your holiday, and if this is when the school would close, they are perfectly entitled to use this as part of your entitlement.

    Our school stay open, usually up until December 23rd for Full Time staff, after which the school is closed for the remainder of the Christmas break.

    We are therefore 'forced' to take some of our entitlement at that time, but as the school remain open longer, it means we only use a few days at most, I think it is 3 this year.

    What you are experiencing isn't uncommon in general industry where a factory might close for a period and all workers have to take time off.

    Sorry if this is not what you want to learn, but your employer is quite within their rights to do this. By the same token, you are quite within your rights to take holiday when you see fit providing you give at least the same amount of time in notice as you are taking in holiday. Of course, operationally, your employer could refuse if there were something occurring which required all staff present.

    Full time workers entitlement is 28 days which can include Bank Holidays. So, you could get 20 days holiday (4 weeks, based on 5 working days a week) plus each and every Bank Holiday.

    If however you work Bank Holidays, then you are entitled to a full 28 days, which is obviously 5 weeks, 3 days in total. Some employers give you Bank Holidays off gratis, and you then get your 28 days on top. My employer gives me 36 days off, but this includes Bank Holidays and so-called Statutory Days at Xmas.

    Hope that helps?

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    HarryMonkey's Avatar
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    The school can determine when you take your holiday, so yes, they can make you use it during a shutdown at Christmas. The alternative would be to close the school and not pay you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    @mb2k01:
    As for the rest of the holidays if the school closes down which I would say most do then you are required to take the holidays from your normal holiday allowance.

    P.S. harsh I know when you compare the teachers holidays but that is education for you.
    There is only 1 problem with that, and thats when you have used all your holidays because you've booked to go somewhere and then find out that the school is closing for 5 extra days at christmas/summer. Of course you dont know this before hand because that would involve telling ALL staff what was happening and not just assuming that staff wont be in because there are no teachers.

    Of course when you get kicked out by the caretaker at 1pm in the summer it's not all bad.(assuming of course you aren't up to your neck in work )

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    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    @mb2k01:

    Staff in our LA get 22 days holiday plus 5 bank holidays and the likes of Christmas day, Boxing day and New years day are classed as Bank Holidays so they are part of the 5 days allowance for this.

    As for the rest of the holidays if the school closes down which I would say most do then you are required to take the holidays from your normal holiday allowance.

    P.S. harsh I know when you compare the teachers holidays but that is education for you.
    If staff aren't getting 28 days a year in total as a minimum, then your LA is breaking the law.

    You are entitled to 28 days minimum, which can include Bank Holidays. As there are eight Bank Holidays a year, you are only appearing to get 27 days off, i.e 22 days + 5 Bank Holidays.

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    mb2k01's Avatar
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    Really this post is a kind of "pre-ask-your-employer" type question!

    It's one of those things that people have just blindly gone along with, and to be honest I personally "don't care" (as bad as that sounds!) as I nearly always end up carrying over additional days anyway. It's more of an "out of principle" kind of question, and one that I think I'm hoping to get a second opinion on via here before I go and talk!

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    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb2k01 View Post
    Really this post is a kind of "pre-ask-your-employer" type question!
    There is no need to "pre-ask" as it is statute. An employer can insist you take specific dates and there is nothing you can do about it.

    The only reason you'd want to ask your employer about this, is to find out what days you are going to be forced to take. They do have to give you sufficient notice in the same way as you have to give them sufficient notice of your intention to take holiday. I'm not entirely sure how much notice is required on the employers side, but on the employees side, it is generally the same amount of time in notice as you intend taking in holiday.

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    dwhyte85's Avatar
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    For me, yes it comes out of my holiday - the only time this happens is over Xmas & I have to give 3 days for holiday as the school is closed, honestly, i'd rather work as i'll have such a backlog! Although, it'd be a bit unfair getting the premises staff to let me in because i hate christmas :-D


    Disclaimer: Views expressed by me are my own and do not represent those of my employer or any other organisation or individual with whom I have an association. I'm also overweight and drink John Smiths Original.
    Love the last bit haha
    Last edited by dwhyte85; 8th October 2009 at 02:36 PM.

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    I get 24 days + 8 bank holidays + 2 days that have to be taken over Christmas.

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    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwhyte85 View Post
    honestly, i'd rather work as i'll have such a backlog! Although, it'd be a bit unfair getting the premises staff to let me in because i hate christmas :-D
    Likewise, I'd rather work as I too don't 'do' Christmas. As you say though, it's unfair to those who would have to be here just to satisfy my 'scrooge' viewpoint. I'd rather take the days when the weather was good and I would have the opportunity to enjoy myself as opposed to sitting indoors watching re-runs of The Wizard of Oz and Only Fools and Horses!

    C'est la vie.

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    Sylv3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    @mb2k01:

    Staff in our LA get 22 days holiday plus 5 bank holidays and the likes of Christmas day, Boxing day and New years day are classed as Bank Holidays so they are part of the 5 days allowance for this.

    As for the rest of the holidays if the school closes down which I would say most do then you are required to take the holidays from your normal holiday allowance.

    P.S. harsh I know when you compare the teachers holidays but that is education for you.
    I get 27 days off per year as well as the bank holidays

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    russdev's Avatar
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    Interesting side note through if you were told it was not part of your holiday when you started like myself (I was told if school was closed not my fault if I was willing to work etc).

    Then they can not force you after a good period as gone by. As same rule as if you do something for long enough it becomes part of your job role and conditions works in reverse.


    Russ

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    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Echoing above comments... if your place of work is closed for a holiday to all staff, then that time will come out of your holiday entitlement... your employer should be double-checking that that you do over-book you entitlement.

    Many factories close for a fortnight during the summer because it is easier to shut down production than manage on a skeleton staff. This 'factory fortnight' is part of the employees' holiday entitlement, not extra to it.

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