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General Chat Thread, Why do fatailties on the railway cause such problems? in General; Just as a suggestion... If you want to try and deal with the " annoyance " of being held up ...
  1. #16
    contink's Avatar
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    Just as a suggestion...

    If you want to try and deal with the "annoyance" of being held up by someone taking their own life or whatever it is, I find the following to be particularly helpful.

    It wasn't me... I'm still alive... Time to recount my blessings
    ... and if that still doesn't do it for you... Try a near death experience (mine was an apartment block fire one Christmas Eve) to wake you out of any "my life sucks" pit and then try the quote above again.

    It's not guaranteed but it certainly helps.

  2. 3 Thanks to contink:

    CPLTD (30th August 2009), localzuk (7th September 2009), _Bat_ (30th August 2009)

  3. #17

    CPLTD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contink View Post
    Just as a suggestion...

    If you want to try and deal with the "annoyance" of being held up by someone taking their own life or whatever it is, I find the following to be particularly helpful.



    ... and if that still doesn't do it for you... Try a near death experience (mine was an apartment block fire one Christmas Eve) to wake you out of any "my life sucks" pit and then try the quote above again.

    It's not guaranteed but it certainly helps.
    I'm with you on that fella after a very nasty car accident

  4. #18

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    Yes, but their not considering the potential traumatic effects of their actions on others can surely be interpreted as an inherently selfish action in itself?
    No, selfishness is not something that applies to depression and suicide.
    Quote Originally Posted by contink View Post
    Just as a suggestion...

    If you want to try and deal with the "annoyance" of being held up by someone taking their own life or whatever it is, I find the following to be particularly helpful.



    ... and if that still doesn't do it for you... Try a near death experience (mine was an apartment block fire one Christmas Eve) to wake you out of any "my life sucks" pit and then try the quote above again.

    It's not guaranteed but it certainly helps.
    Agreed! Everyone should be happy they are alive - ignore the annoyances in life, they are meaningless in the bigger scheme of things.

  5. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    No, selfishness is not something that applies to depression and suicide.
    I disagree.

  6. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    I disagree.
    Selfishness, to me is a conscious decision to not think of others - taking various forms (narcissism, simple selfishness, etc...) etc.... Committing suicide is being overwhelmed with dispair. Where your brain is simply not functioning. ie. it is a mental illness, not just a normal function of the brain leading to selfish behaviour.

  7. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholab View Post
    The real question is how can the is a mess/crime scenic on the track be dealt with to get all the evidence and every thing back to normal!! What to do with all the passengers stranded at other stations I know we are on the unimportant line. The roads don't often close all lanes and they seem to aim at getting traffic flowing again. Taking a long time over it is still not going to bring them back to life. I do think at high risk location more precautions should be taken.
    Oh my .. Oh my oh my! I didn;t realise that you were a SOCO expert and could adequately give advice on how a possible crime resulting in a fatality should be dealt with? Ok, said a little tongue in cheek but in reality it can take a long time to assess the scene, identify all evidence (it can help the officers dealing if they de-sensitise themselves by calling body parts 'evidence'), ensure that all possible victims are dealt with appropriately ... and quite often this is before H&S are allowed to then assess damage to the train and the track.

    Most of this activity requires the line to be 'dead' (no traffic running except for trains / engines / vehicles need to get things going again, for emergency services, for security or a few very specific functions ... even the Royal Train or the PM stops for it usually!) to safeguard those working on the situation.

    There are too many such suicides each year, but this actually gives BTP and other agencies enough practice so that they know the procedures, they work as fast as they can and things are running smoothly again. They know how frustrating it is ... but I am sure you would not want a fatal shooting or a bomb to be quickly swept up just so you could get on with your life ... especially if it affects you directly (eg loved one)?

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    There are big differences between road and rail. A car can divert easily - our rail system is so tightly scheduled (as someone else said) that this is very difficult for trains. (The reason behind this is because in the 1960s a lot of secondary lines were shut, thus leaving no easy diversion in most cases - and since then there has been huge growth in passenger numbers). Whilst, perhaps, police etc can work around a car accident scene with cones around, the same doesn't hold on the railways - the whole line has to be shut.

    I know a fair few rail staff, and quite a few drivers who never return to the industry again. As for lack of information, yes it can be frustrating - however, the staff are unlikely to know when the service will resume, so don't want to give duff information. For example, if you had a teacher asking you when you would fix a projector and you were waiting on a part you had no idea when it'd arrive, would you give her an estimate or would you explain that you weren't sure?

    On another note, the jumper often isn't killed instantly - when the paramedics arrive they may still be alive, and indeed in many cases the person can be saved.

    Until the police, ambulance etc have finished, the line must remain closed - the simple reason being that only rail staff are permitted to be on the track on a live railway, for obvious reasons. Then, to re-open, there are set procedures - not to mention repairs of things which may have been damaged in the incident.

    And, once the line is re-opened, the signalman is left with a huge mess to contend with. Trains in the wrong place, drivers in the wrong place. Drivers need breaks at defined intervals, which must be adhered to if at all possible.
    Last edited by grumpy_git; 30th August 2009 at 11:16 PM.

  9. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    I got some funny looks in the pub when I suggested the police should have used a marksman to take that guy out on the bridge over the M5 - some people were stuck in non-moving traffic for over five hours. Suicide or not, some people are bloody selfish and inconsiderate.
    As always, [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBs0gq67ERA"]YouTube - Chinese Bridge jumper. jumping suicider get a "push" from pedestrian. FULL VERSION[/ame]

  10. #24

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    My, what a load of tangential thoughts...

    1) There doesn't have to be a crime involved or even suspected. Any death outside a few medical situations will require a coroners inquest. This will require evidence to be collected.

    2) This has to be done safely, hence road/rail closures.

    3) It can take a lot of time to re-open lines, roads etc as others have said.

    4) HOWEVER, there are inherent risks with road closures; people are often involved in accidents primarily because the traffic is congested. I would expect better plans to be in place to divert traffic, and clear the bottled traffic if it looks like a 5 hour hold up is on the cards. Failing to do so is IMHO negligent of the DoT or their agents.

    5) More information to those delayed must be a priority. Also some way to communicate from trapped/stopped trains (mobiles may not be usable) to request assistance for anyone needing it. On a hot day, dehydration could be a significant risk, likewise cold could result in further casualties.

    6) I know the underground are investing heavily in better station announcements; I know someone who got the contracts for some stations.

    7) More stuff that will come to mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    My, what a load of tangential thoughts...

    1) There doesn't have to be a crime involved or even suspected. Any death outside a few medical situations will require a coroners inquest. This will require evidence to be collected.

    2) This has to be done safely, hence road/rail closures.

    3) It can take a lot of time to re-open lines, roads etc as others have said.

    4) HOWEVER, there are inherent risks with road closures; people are often involved in accidents primarily because the traffic is congested. I would expect better plans to be in place to divert traffic, and clear the bottled traffic if it looks like a 5 hour hold up is on the cards. Failing to do so is IMHO negligent of the DoT or their agents.

    5) More information to those delayed must be a priority. Also some way to communicate from trapped/stopped trains (mobiles may not be usable) to request assistance for anyone needing it. On a hot day, dehydration could be a significant risk, likewise cold could result in further casualties.

    6) I know the underground are investing heavily in better station announcements; I know someone who got the contracts for some stations.

    7) More stuff that will come to mind.
    contracts for what exactly ? station annoucement systems ? what are the components of such systems that work between/across stations. genuinely curious, so long as you don't mind me taking the thread onto another tangent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    Also some way to communicate from trapped/stopped trains (mobiles may not be usable) to request assistance for anyone needing it. On a hot day, dehydration could be a significant risk, likewise cold could result in further casualties.
    The motorman has the ability to contact the control room via his radio system in such cases - though you'd need to pull the communication cord to get his attention.

    The announcements thing is silly, IMO - London Underground realised that information was poor, but have made up for it by putting in loads of silly announcements. "There is a good service operating on the Piccadilly line" etc.

  13. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    contracts for what exactly ? station annoucement systems ?
    At least that; and it may extend to inter-station systems, but I don't know. If I find out I'll let you all know. I was aware that the driver can communicate, maybe they should be trained (groan) to do more so. Keep the cattle informed, and they won't get so restless!

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