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General Chat Thread, Cloud Computing Your Thoughts! in General; Bottom line is that Data = Money and the likes of Google will ultimately own your data and you will ...
  1. #16

    bossman's Avatar
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    Bottom line is that Data = Money and the likes of Google will ultimately own your data and you will eventually be asked to pay for accessing your data.

    Data centres are all around the world hosting everyone's data, will there be ultimately, one data centre owned by one company with everyone's data hosted on it, ultimate power and money source.

    Will machines then take over the world (Terminator) or will man cease to exist by then?

    Like Star Trek will we be able to access data from trillions of light years away and have it uploaded to our system in the blinking of an eye?

    It is effectively another version of the industrial revolution which will change the way everyone learns, works and socialises. We have I feel entered into another human evolutionary stage whereupon computers are the be it and end all of human life in whatever format.

    How long before IT is integrated within our bodies and our minds are then controlled by directives, unlike the Borg in Star Trek?

    I say why stop at cloud computing why not universe computing?

    Apologies to those of you who actually take this seriously (Russ) but really what does it mean for us well bottom line is Unemployment................:-) ;-)

  2. 2 Thanks to bossman:

    webman (25th August 2009), witch (28th August 2009)

  3. #17

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    I can see a lot of good things about cloud computing but currently is caught up in all the hype surrounding it. It is not the be all and end all of computing at not suitable for all organisations all the time.

    I do like the idea of carrying my desktop around with me and accessing it from any web enabled machine via a cloud os such as gOS or eyeos as long as such concerns as net availability and security (as discussed above) are addressed.

    Personally I can't see everyone dutifully handing over their apps and data to the big providers such as Google, Amazon and Microsoft. I would think that businesses would be more inclined to retain control of their data by building their own clouds, allowing for desktops to be stored on local servers and accessed from their machines.

  4. #18

    russdev's Avatar
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    @bossman

    You come back after your holiday causing trouble

    As said think white label cloud computing is where it will be for companies. To a degree sharepoint and other portals go a long way to this problem.

    Don't get me wrong I think there is lot of hype over it but cloud computing won't go away. it is finding the best.

    Russ

  5. #19

    bossman's Avatar
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    @russdev:

    To true Russ, good to be back from fighting fires in Greece and knowing your cheerful banter will still be waiting for me.

    Just having fun Russ as you know me only too well now (will get back into serious thinking mode sometime this year hehe!)

    Life is good Russ and Webman has missed me also.

    Have missed the merry banter of Edugeek while I have been away (didn't have access to a computer or technical device so cloud computing was out of the question) but it is good to be back Wahaayyyyy!!!


  6. #20


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    It looks like private clouds will become a lot more common in the future.

    Amazon has announced Virtual Private Cloud (VPC), a new service that allows Enterprise customers to connect to its Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2) services through a VPN. Translating all these acronyms, this is Amazon's attempt to get a bigger foot into Enterprise by extending a more secure connection for moving data.
    http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009...vate-cloud.ars

    VMware's recent acquisition of SpringSource certainly makes a lot more sense now.



    http://arstechnica.com/business/news...cloud-play.ars
    Last edited by Arthur; 27th August 2009 at 11:05 PM.

  7. #21
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    The cloud seems to me much like virtualisation in the early days, used by geeks, development teams and startups. Adoption will be slow for mainstream users until open standards, proven security (encryption/audit) and serious management tools are in place.

    I've been developing solutions with for the cloud for the last three months, with two of my commercial customers using Amazon EC2 all in early development phases only. (Backup/Data warehouse and web services)

    Build you own Amazon cloud see Open Source | Eucalyptus Systems Inc

    Windows Desktop in the cloud NASSTAR, worth visiting just for the introduction video.

  8. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by bossman View Post
    Like Star Trek will we be able to access data from trillions of light years away and have it uploaded to our system in the blinking of an eye?
    How long before IT is integrated within our bodies and our minds are then controlled by directives, unlike the Borg in Star Trek?

    I say why stop at cloud computing why not universe computing?

    Apologies to those of you who actually take this seriously (Russ) but really what does it mean for us well bottom line is Unemployment................:-) ;-)
    The Culture's Dataverse in Iain M Banks books! Controlled by a network of Minds (AI). They do all the thinking and working. Can it be worse than human's who run things now?

    Seriously, I think it is the way to go. But which of the big competitors to go with? Who is getting it right? I like the look of the amazon stuff but I think for the time being I will go for self-hosted remote application etc. See how the market settles.
    Adrian
    "One hundred idiots make idiotic plans and carry them out. All but one justly fail. The hundredth idiot, whose plan succeeded through pure luck, is immediately convinced he's a genius." Iain M Banks

  9. #23

    russdev's Avatar
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    Just seen this flash on my twitter feed?

    GLADINET - Deliver Cloud Services onto Desktop

    Russ

  10. #24

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    How do you guys feel about this idea of having apps and alike running via the web, I have to question the security and the reliability of Cloud but once that is assured how would this affect computing in the 21st century,
    Cloud computing in many respects has been around for a long time. The way we manage websites is very much cloud like, as is webmail which I have been using for business and personal purposes for quite a number of years.
    Cloud computing in my opinion isn't anything new, but it is something which is definitely evolving. Reading the link to Sky News I have to question the accuracy of one sentence:

    At work and often at home, systems are constantly running, costing power and money. Whereas in the cloud, your programs only run when you need access to your data.
    Even if I did switch to cloud computing, the server hosting my data is still running 24/7, whereas I don't run my computer 24/7. Although the server could be shared across 10 different users with an allocation of 50GB each (for example), I do question really just how green cloud computing is. If anything it's probably less efficient than me not using cloud computing for my data.

    The second problem (as many of you have stated already), is available internet bandwidth. Even with a dedicated 10Mbps or 100Mbps internet connection (realistically) this is still not sufficient for a group of users browsing, opening, editing, deleting, saving and moving data about simultaneously. I see many schools host their VLEs externally and it's painful at times.
    Schools access data differently to businesses. Typically a class are given an instruction by a teacher and they follow the same lesson plan/objective. This may involve visiting the same website or VLE for example, so a lot of pressure is put on resources. In a business environment this wouldn't usually happen and employees may check their e-mail at different times during the day.

    The third problem is security. You could debate cloud computing security is like dangling a banana in front of a monkey. It has many opportunities to attack and grab the banana (even without me being there), whereas when I've finished working on my computer I switch it off. It's impossible to access data when a machine is off. In practice this'll probably mean everything will need to be secure and of course secure traffic is slower than unsecure traffic further eating into the limited bandwidth available.

    Do I think cloud computing is the future? Yes I do but in 2009, in the UK, there are still too many bandwidth limitations and security concerns that I wouldn't consider cloud computing to host any of my data.

  11. #25

    russdev's Avatar
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    I would say technically cloud computing is greener as based on the fact that instead of having 10 servers in 10 offices to store the data your have one server to store 10 companies data etc so it reduces the overall amount of hardware in circulation.

    Russ

  12. #26

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    I would say technically cloud computing is greener as based on the fact that instead of having 10 servers in 10 offices to store the data your have one server to store 10 companies data etc so it reduces the overall amount of hardware in circulation.
    Although I agree with your theory I think in practice it may not work out that way. There's only so much a single server can handle/process, so reducing from 10 servers to 1 (although an example) may be a little too optimistic. However if you had 10 x Pentium II servers and you replaced them with the latest Intel Xeon then you may have a point

    You could also debate that with many users accessing data over slow ADSL internet connections (compared to Ethernet), this would inevitably use up more server resources and take much longer; especially when uploading files. Of course this problem doesn't exist within a corporate network.

    Ultimately (you could probably create a formula), but I believe the uptake of Cloud Computing will depend on the growth of internet connectivity. At the rate the UK is going, it's probably going to be at least another 10 years until the telecom companies have put fibre in every street.

  13. #27

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    We couldnt afford the bandwidth. Plain and simple. My budget barely stretches to a 2mb SDSL never mind the xxmb required for a full school offloading a lot of work.

  14. #28
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    I have a deep distrust of the whole cloud idea... seems like a great way for large companies to get you to shift your infrastructure out on the promise of it being cheap, more secure etc then once you're in (think "the big juicy worm rate" off those TV ads) you find out actually the grass isn't that much greener but it would cost so much to go back that you get stuck.

    Also on a paranoid level it makes it much easier for the powers that be to get access to your data... they can't legally hack into your PC to have a nosey at your documents but as we've seen with ISPs and Internet records it seems very easy for Governments to get powers to search through online data.

    Using the cloud for your own convenince... maybe i.e. Google can store my thousands of crap emails and Photobucket can host some pics I want sharing but putting my servers, apps and infrastructure up there... thanks but no thanks!

    It is however worth embracing the web app idea with you in control of it as we're doing with VLEs etc, however I hope MS control the desktop and OS for a long time yet and Google fail miserably with their attempt and go back to doing Search engines

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Although I agree with your theory I think in practice it may not work out that way. There's only so much a single server can handle/process, so reducing from 10 servers to 1 (although an example) may be a little too optimistic. However if you had 10 x Pentium II servers and you replaced them with the latest Intel Xeon then you may have a point

    You could also debate that with many users accessing data over slow ADSL internet connections (compared to Ethernet), this would inevitably use up more server resources and take much longer; especially when uploading files. Of course this problem doesn't exist within a corporate network.

    Ultimately (you could probably create a formula), but I believe the uptake of Cloud Computing will depend on the growth of internet connectivity. At the rate the UK is going, it's probably going to be at least another 10 years until the telecom companies have put fibre in every street.
    Could be a lot longer than that seeing as BT have just invested loadsa monies in copper based connections that are barely gonna boost the speeds to 20Mb from what I read?
    Last edited by gshaw; 2nd September 2009 at 12:05 PM.

  15. #29


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    Quote Originally Posted by gshaw View Post
    I have a deep distrust of the whole cloud idea... seems like a great way for large companies to get you to shift your infrastructure out on the promise of it being cheap, mroe secure etc then once you're in (think "the big kuicy worm rate" off those TV ads) you find out actually the grass isn't that much greener but it would cost so much to go back that you get stuck.
    Nonsense! Outsourcing call centres went so well, why wouldn't you want to outsource your vital infrastructure too?

  16. #30

    russdev's Avatar
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    As said key here is white label solutions so you run your own in cloud servers with access to internet but run with security of your own infrastructure.

    Russ



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