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General Chat Thread, More like Microsoft with every passing minute in General; BBC NEWS | Technology | Apple blocks rival smart phones Maybe the EU should get involved with this as well...
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    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    More like Microsoft with every passing minute

    BBC NEWS | Technology | Apple blocks rival smart phones

    Maybe the EU should get involved with this as well

  2. #2

    AngryTechnician's Avatar
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    It does bug me that they are allowed to get away with extremely uncompetitive behaviour simply because they aren't 'big enough'. Should be one rule for all really. It's a move that doesn't even seem to make sense - I was under the impression that Apple made more money on complementary sales of MacBooks and music sales from the iTunes store than on the actual iPod/iPhone hardware itself.

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    I still don't think they will want a rival platform gaining ground, they control the platform when it's accessed on their device. If Palm gain a foothold they might start a decent rival service or someone else might that will take users away from i-tunes.

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    If Apple want to gain a bigger market they need to stop this nonsense being tied to one phone provider. In the UK it's O2 and in France it's Orange. It just doesn't make any business sense to do this.

    If the iPhone could be used on any network in any country they'd be little market for competitors, unless they can create an equivalent iPhone for a considerably cheaper amount.

    I do agree that the EU should step in on this one. The common trend I have noticed is that I can go and buy a CD from any music store that I choose from the high street, whereas Apple are deliberately blocking users doing this when it comes to digital portable music; MP3s in other words. You must buy an iPhone and you must download it through iTunes. It's not right and that's one reason why I don't have an iPhone

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    Please, Apple are more Microsoft than Microsoft are nowadays.

    While Microsft are (very cautiously, and with more than a little difficulty) embracing open source Apple have built their own closed-source Linux which will only run on their hardware, and will sue anyone who tries to built hardware compatible with it. They're also locking people into their media players and phones as tightly as they possibly can, and doing their best to kill the possibility of anyone else using their (admittedly relatively good) media store.

    Obviously Apple have finally learned from Microsoft's tactics, just when Microsoft are starting to get beyond them. Google are just as bad.

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    Michael's Avatar
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    They're also locking people into their media players and phones as tightly as they possibly can
    Microsoft were forced by an EU directive to remove or create a version of Windows without Media Player and they did so with Windows XP N, and now Windows 7 will be released without IE in Europe. If that's anti-competitive than Apple are blatantly being anti-competitive. I do dislike double standards!

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    ahuxham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    Google are just as bad.
    How so?

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    ahuxham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Microsoft were forced by an EU directive to remove or create a version of Windows without Media Player and they did so with Windows XP N, and now Windows 7 will be released without IE in Europe. If that's anti-competitive than Apple are blatantly being anti-competitive. I do dislike double standards!
    One hopes the next release of OSX will come without Safari, following the same guidelines Microsoft are being forced to adhere to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    One hopes the next release of OSX will come without Safari, following the same guidelines Microsoft are being forced to adhere to.
    My, you are an optimist.

    As to Google they're a monopoly, in every sense of the world. Not only that but their practices with online advertising are plainly immoral. They obfuscate the method as much as they can, refusing to give any details. They've brought in such wonderful things as automatic matching (if your budget isn't spent by your normal bidding, they'll automatically spend the rest each month unless you opt out - which takes some doing). Its possible to pay over the odds for a keyword, and still have your result showing on the fifth page of the searches, and they actively encourage domain parking (content free sites full of adverts).

    On top of all this they're facing various data protection charges, their behavioural tracking is worse than any government's, and they have the guts to say that their company motto is 'Don't be evil'.

    I think that last bit is what gets me most of all. At least Microsoft never pretended to be the good guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    As to Google they're a monopoly, in every sense of the world
    A monopoly on what? Search engines? They have an 80% market share on search engines, which is pretty good going but hardly a monopoly compared to MS desktop share.
    When Google are have anything close to the number of convictions for illegal business practice I'll change my mind. But for now google are still the good guys IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    One hopes the next release of OSX will come without Safari, following the same guidelines Microsoft are being forced to adhere to.
    And google will release ChromeOS without Chrome. Hmm.

  12. #12

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Microsoft have been convicted several times of anti-competitive behaviour, ie. leveraging their monopoly in the desktop market to force their way into other markets (web browsers, video players for example). They were also found to have edited code in the past to prevent competitor software from being able to run MS software and visa-versa (thinking of the early windows vs non-ms-dos thing).

    Apple in this case are behaving in a very similar way, and I do believe the EU bods should investigate these behaviours. The whole exclusive supplier thing is being investigated in the USA at the moment too. So, Apple are not just being let to do things - they will be investigated.

    Google, on the other hand, are not using their market share in search to force people to use Chrome, to force people to use Picasa, Gmail, etc... They are simply releasing them as other products.

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    ahuxham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Google, on the other hand, are not using their market share in search to force people to use Chrome, to force people to use Picasa, Gmail, etc... They are simply releasing them as other products.
    Well said, and clear to the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Google, on the other hand, are not using their market share in search to force people to use Chrome, to force people to use Picasa, Gmail, etc... They are simply releasing them as other products.
    But they are using their market share in online advertising/search engines to force people to use their advertising mechanism despite the layers of secrecy that prevent customers being able to use it effectively, and which unfairly impose surcharges on customers.

    Not to mention the ethics of selling other people's trademarks to competitors in many countries.

    A monopoly is a monopoly, even if its in a service.

    Approximately 88.4% of machines which log on to the internet are running a Microsoft OS.

    In the UK google have approximately 90% of all search hits.

    Many browsers use google as the default search engine, and make it very hard to change (Yes, IE uses Bing but its easy to change if you want).

    As such, the only option for advertisers is to go to google and accept their unethical business practices. Yes, this is google leveraging their market share to force unfavourable terms on many of their advertising clients.

  15. #15

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
    But they are using their market share in online advertising/search engines to force people to use their advertising mechanism despite the layers of secrecy that prevent customers being able to use it effectively, and which unfairly impose surcharges on customers.
    Err... No. No-one is forced to use google for advertising. Yahoo offer competitive advertising rates. As do Microsoft. There are a huge number of advertising companies operating online.

    Not to mention the ethics of selling other people's trademarks to competitors in many countries.
    Ok, I find this issue to be a bit odd - how on Earth can Google police this? There are millions of trademarks, and millions of companies, using billions of keywords. Google do not check every keyword sale by hand.

    A monopoly is a monopoly, even if its in a service.
    It doesn't matter if they are a monopoly or not - it is what they do with it that is the issue.

    Approximately 88.4% of machines which log on to the internet are running a Microsoft OS.

    In the UK google have approximately 90% of all search hits.
    Please don't try to be clever with statistics - if you're going to compare worldwide with UK search hit stats then it is obvious you aren't willing to do actual research. ie. you just show your bias by doing this.

    Many browsers use google as the default search engine, and make it very hard to change (Yes, IE uses Bing but its easy to change if you want).
    Name them. Firefox can change search engine in a few clicks, just like IE. Opera is exactly the same. Even Chrome, Google's own browser allows you to change the default engine with 3 clicks! (and, I might add, they include a list of competing search engines pre-installed, which IE most certainly doesn't do) What more do you want?

    As such, the only option for advertisers is to go to google and accept their unethical business practices. Yes, this is google leveraging their market share to force unfavourable terms on many of their advertising clients.
    You haven't actually proven anything yet...

    NOTE: I am not simply defending Google because I like them, I do think some of their practices could be cleaned up a bit, but rants about them being anti-competitive without any substance annoy me.

  16. Thanks to localzuk from:

    ahuxham (20th July 2009)

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