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General Chat Thread, My First Car in General; stuff the service, it won't necessarily help. You have no choke..it'll be EFi, either single or multipoint. That's a red ...
  1. #31
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    stuff the service, it won't necessarily help.

    You have no choke..it'll be EFi, either single or multipoint. That's a red herring.

    I'd also say the ignition is probably fine..here's why..

    First point, check if you have an emergency fuel cutoff (impact safety cutoff)..it's easy to catch and accidentally kill the pump supply. I'll see if I can find out if/where they are on Civics.

    Point 2 -open your fusebox, check them all. If the pump fuse goes, you'll run for a few seconds on fuel in the line, then die. I used to immobilise my astra this way. It'll be repeatable if you give it a while to refill the lines, but without the pump the pressure is nil and she no go.

    Doubtful on the filter..they're gradual, not catastrophic. Not plugs etc either, I'd suspect. Sounds like fuel starvation to me, from hours of playing with the EFi on mine. Starting with no fuse in is a recommended way to purge and depressurise the EFi system prior to dismantling (when I did my injectors).

    Fords are a tit when worn, as the cold start injectors flood the chambers..the cure is to pull the fuse, floor the throttle and run it until it does, then put the fuse back in and restart..That was a dealer fix too..heh.

    Fuse first, look for a cutoff second.
    Last edited by Sirbendy; 3rd July 2009 at 11:06 AM.

  2. #32
    ahuxham's Avatar
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    If you do require a mechanic, find a dainty little one somewhere and try to get the price down.

    Garages charge around 40 an hour labour, charge for parts + 15% on top of part.

    Find out the problem and offer to get the part yourself, this will save you money. Otherwise offer any services you have and volunteer for work etc etc to get the price down.

    Diagnosing a fault wont take long, but the labour to replace the part might.

  3. #33
    Chris_in_notts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirbendy View Post
    I have to disagree..MOT doesn't cover the brakes..efficiency yes, condition no. You could have deathtrap brakes with shot to hell pads, yet if it stops for the MOT, you're fine.

    Chassis too - they can't move bodykits etc...you could quite feasibly have rotten sills and severe structural issues, but if they're covered at MOT time, the tester can't move the bits to see, so he'll pass it.

    I've had a car pass MOT and 4 minutes later put me into a skid towards an oncoming lorry due to total brake failure and pad disintegration...that's when I went and had a nice chat to the tester and found out that the MOT is, in his words "not as great as people think".

    You don't even need a speedo for MOT..
    you do needs a speedo but it doesnt have to work they need the mileage off if before they can log the MOT


    So the car no longer even turns over? (by turning over I dont mean idleing just turning trying to start) I dont think it will have a manual choke on the car/year but if the car is trying to start but wont fire you deffo looking at a fuel issue, just because it says 1/4 tank does that mean you know theres 1/4 tank or is that what the gauge says? your best bet is to get some easy start or a can of lynx haha spray it in the air intake and see if it will fire at all, it wont run properly but may get some popping and banging so then you know you have a spark and can definately put it down to fuel. at that point id take the fuel line off at the engine put it in a bottle and turn the ignition on to see if the pump pushes any fuel through (dont try to start it) if theres fuel there then the pumps working fine also which may mean clogged injectors.

    if the cars not turning over at all have the battery checked or maybe an immobiliser issue cutting power to the starter motor solinoid.

  4. #34

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_notts View Post
    you do needs a speedo but it doesnt have to work they need the mileage off if before they can log the MOT


    So the car no longer even turns over? (by turning over I dont mean idleing just turning trying to start) I dont think it will have a manual choke on the car/year but if the car is trying to start but wont fire you deffo looking at a fuel issue, just because it says 1/4 tank does that mean you know theres 1/4 tank or is that what the gauge says? your best bet is to get some easy start or a can of lynx haha spray it in the air intake and see if it will fire at all, it wont run properly but may get some popping and banging so then you know you have a spark and can definately put it down to fuel. at that point id take the fuel line off at the engine put it in a bottle and turn the ignition on to see if the pump pushes any fuel through (dont try to start it) if theres fuel there then the pumps working fine also which may mean clogged injectors.

    if the cars not turning over at all have the battery checked or maybe an immobiliser issue cutting power to the starter motor solinoid.
    when the green flag guy came out he had a can of spray and sprayed it into that air intake you mentioned and it sounded like it nearly started up but didnt - made more of a bang or sounded like it would nearly start but then karked it

    He did mention that it may be the distributor ( he reckoned that the imobilizer was apart of or in the distributor ) me being clueless with mechanices / engines I didnt have a dicky bird
    Last edited by mac_shinobi; 3rd July 2009 at 11:16 AM.

  5. #35
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    the mileage is bunk - I've taken my old rover in with a semi-complete digital dash conversion minus speedo readout and they've passed it, and I took my renault in with a speedo that hadn't worked since the last MOT..no issue with either. Even when the reading's gone backwards, they've been OK.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by mac_shinobi View Post
    what do you mean manual choke ?
    You've just made me feel very old with that comment.

    Pete

  7. #37
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    found this on a google for '96 Civic fusebox layout:



    1 - - 10-13 Not used
    2 - - 10-13 Not used
    3 (RR WIPER 10 10-2 Rear wiper, Security system (option)
    RR WASHER) (Vehicles pre-wired for accessory security system)
    4 R H/L HIGH BEAM 10 110-12 Right headlight, DRL control unit (Canada)
    5 L H/L HIGH BEAM 10 110-12 Left headlight, DRL control unit (Canada)
    6 - - 10-13 Security system (option)
    7 (P/W RR-L) 20 120-2 Left rear window motor
    8 (P/W RR-R) 20 120-3 Right rear window motor
    9 (IGN COIL) 15 10-1 Ignition coil ('98-'00 models except GX)
    10 (P/W AS) 20 120-1 Front passenger's window motor
    11 (P/W DR) 20 120 Driver's window motor
    12 TURN LIGHTS 7.5 10-2 Hazard warning switch
    13 FUEL PUMP 15 10-2 PGM-FI main relay, SRS unit
    (SRS UNIT)
    14 (CRUISE CONTROL) 7.5 10-3 Stereo radio tuner ('96-'98 USA: LX, EX, and HX),
    (KEYLESS) Cruise control main switch, Keyless door lock
    control unit ('99-'00 models with keyless entry)
    15 ALTERNATOR 7.5 10-4 ELD unit, Gauge assembly, TCM ('96-'98 CVT), PGM-FI
    SP SENSOR
    16 RR DEF RELAY 7.5 10-8 Rear window defogger ('96-'98 models), ABS control unit,
    Power mirror switch ('99-'00 models except GX)
    17 HEATER A/C 7.5 10-9 Power mirrors ('96-'98 models and all GX models),
    RELAY Air delivery, Blower controls, A/C compressor
    controls, Fans
    18 (RUNNING LIGHT 7.5 10-8 DRL control unit (Canada)
    RELAY)
    19 BACK-UP LIGHTS 7.5 10-3 Back-up lights
    20 (RUNNING LIGHT) 7.5 10-12 DRL control unit (Canada)
    21 R H/L LOW BEAM 10 110-12 Right headlight
    22 L H/L LOW BEAM 10 110-12 Left headlight
    23 (SRS) 10 10-3 SRS unit
    24 (P/W RELAY) 7.5 10-6 Power window relay, Moonroof
    (S/R RELAY)
    25 METER 7.5 10-6 Integrated control unit, Interlock system,
    Gauge assembly
    26 FR WIPER 20 10-7 Front wiper/washer
    FR WASHER
    27 CIGARETTE 10 10-7 Accessory power socket
    LIGHTER
    ACC SOCKET
    28 RADIO CLOCK 10 (*15) 10-7 Stereo radio tuner ('96-'98 models), Audio unit ('99-'00
    model)
    29 - - - Not used
    30 INSTRUMENT 7.5 114 Dash & console lights
    LIGHTS
    31 STARTER SIGNAL 7.5 21, 21-1, PGM-FI main relay, PCM/ECM, Integrated control unit
    or 21-2
    32 LICENSE LIGHTS 7.5 100-1 Parking lights, License plate lights, Tail lights
    TAIL LIGHTS
    33 (INTERLOCK UNIT) 7.5 10-12 Interlock system

    I'd say you might need to look at 9, 13 or 31, but DO check them all...

    PGM-Fi is usually fairly bombproof...rover used it in a few of them as well...I only ever had one die on me, and that was the main relay that had corroded and turned to mush.

    Also read that the fuel relay unit is prone to being stupid..

    Thse may be of use: (workshop manuals)

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/3034273/Ho...-Manual-Part-I
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/3034301/Ho...Manual-Part-II

    Page 193 in manual P1 shows the location of the FI relay under the dash.. Also that section covers the PGMFI systems
    Last edited by Sirbendy; 3rd July 2009 at 11:42 AM.

  8. #38

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Smells like the inverter to me (ignition amplifyer as someone else called it). I had a honda (the same year - admittedly petrol) and they are bomb proof. After a nuclear attact the cockroaches and the hondas will survive. This problem definitely sounds electrical, my first shouce would be the inverter coil and second the fuses to various electronics as sirbendy has suggested. Not to sure about the deisels but they are probably the same.

  9. #39
    ahuxham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    Smells like the inverter to me (ignition amplifyer as someone else called it). I had a honda (the same year - admittedly petrol) and they are bomb proof. After a nuclear attact the cockroaches and the hondas will survive. This problem definitely sounds electrical, my first shouce would be the inverter coil and second the fuses to various electronics as sirbendy has suggested. Not to sure about the deisels but they are probably the same.
    or coil-pack

  10. #40

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    or coil-pack
    Possibly, if it has an engine from a 2000 model in it instead of the original

  11. #41

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    It's Petrol - I moved the accelerator cable ( which bends in a U shape near the front of the engine ie im standing where the front bumper is and its closest cable to me ) un clipped that and re clipped it in and it started ran it around the block once and my better half ran it around the block and we parked it went for a walk for no longer then 10 mins and came back and I started it but then after 4 seconds it cut out when should of been idling and then I tried to start it again and it started doing exactly the same as what I mentioned above in the question where it wouldnt turn over and I couldnt reverse it or drive in first gear or nothing and then left it off for about 5 seconds and tried again and it started up again so being very temperamental and its not making sense to me.

    Drove it from London way to home fine and didnt have any issues and also I moved that cable on wednesday evening and drove to work fine and then cut out on me on the thursday evening and had to get towed home as even the recovery guy couldnt get the car to start so not just me.

  12. #42

    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    not read any of this thread apart from the first post... my first car was a honda civic 1.4i R reg. Great wee car to learn to drive in.. passed down to both sisters, youngest drives it now. One thing I found about it was the fuel gauge would go from full to half full really quickly, but half full to empty would go about 2.5x slower.

    took it for a drive not long before i left, felt like driving a go-cart compared to my bmw ;p

  13. #43

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    my better halfs mate is a mechanic and he has looked it over and checked it all over and it had been sitting around in a barn before I got it so either reckons that it may be some crud that got stuck in the engine or fuel pipes or because I get straight in and try to turn the key straight away and didnt realise a green key flashing and never waited for that because I didnt realise about that.

    He did tighten the accelerator cable up a bit and the distributor is new so nothing wrong with that.

    Also a chip in the key so going to get a duplicate and get the key checked out as well.

    But mechanically he reckoned it was fine aside from that.

    So will see how I get on.

  14. #44
    chrbb's Avatar
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    May be worth putting in as much petrol in as you can afford and go out for a decent length drive, a route with not much traffic, if you're a bit nervous about it not starting again don't stop just drive! It may clear the petrol pipes etc and do the car good if it's been standing for a while before you bought it. Even better get the mechanic friend to go too!

  15. #45

    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Had red X in it after filling the tank up and ran it down the A45 and back and been fine since - getting a spare key is impossible because I never got the red key and getting that replaced will either be 480 or 580 directly from honda so will leave that until something goes wrong with either the key or the ignition.

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