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General Chat Thread, This Thursday What Are You Doing in General; Can I just take the opportunity to point out that as the Euro Elections use proportional representation those 'protest votes' ...
  1. #31

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Can I just take the opportunity to point out that as the Euro Elections use proportional representation those 'protest votes' for extreme parties that people think won't really matter but give the other parties a bloody nose, really do count!

    This is worth passing on to those people who are talking about voting this way to make them really understand the implications of their actions.

  2. #32

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    My view is that unless you have voted, you have no right to complain about the actions of the elected representatives.

    If you don't vote, how can you object to the actions of the person elected?...

    Your vote may have been the critical one to stop that person being elected in the first place.

    Your choice of candidate may not be elected, but if you have voted, at least you have expressed an opinion.

  3. #33

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    With the talk of independant candidates and BNP - this seemed very apt

    A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
    Margaret Mead

  4. #34


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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    My view is that unless you have voted, you have no right to complain about the actions of the elected representatives.

    If you don't vote, how can you object to the actions of the person elected?...

    Your vote may have been the critical one to stop that person being elected in the first place.

    Your choice of candidate may not be elected, but if you have voted, at least you have expressed an opinion.
    I do express an opinion, by filling out a ballot paper.

    That opinion may be that I don't believe any of the candidates are suitable, but its still a valid opinion and I have at least gone to the effort to have it noted, in some tiny way.

    Not voting at all is an entirely different thing.

  5. #35

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    For the Euro election, there are groups of independents standing. Jury Party? Or similar. Ester Ranzen amongst them (not sure if that is in their favour!)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    For the Euro election, there are groups of independents standing. Jury Party? Or similar. Ester Ranzen amongst them (not sure if that is in their favour!)
    She has crazy teeth which scare me.

  7. Thanks to dalsoth from:

    Netman (4th June 2009)

  8. #37
    enjay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    For the Euro election, there are groups of independents standing. Jury Party? Or similar.
    Ours was similar - something like 15 candidates to choose from in all, some from 'parties of independents' such as the Jury Party and other totally independent ones.

    My concern is how well informed most people's decisions will be - your average Joe on the Street is not going to go round all these parties' web sites to see what they stand for, and the only parties to have stuck anything through our door are the BNP and one-man-band The Rome Party Ave! (the exclamation mark is his, not mine, by the way!)

    I was a little surprised to hear from the BNP in my area actually, as it is very multi-cultural - don't know if that would mean more support or less...

  9. #38

    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones View Post
    I was a little surprised to hear from the BNP in my area actually, as it is very multi-cultural - don't know if that would mean more support or less...
    Also get their flyers in Leicester which initially surprised me, but thinking about it, perhaps they think that ethno-diverse areas are easier to stir up prejudices?

  10. #39

    AngryTechnician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    My view is that unless you have voted, you have no right to complain about the actions of the elected representatives.

    If you don't vote, how can you object to the actions of the person elected?...
    This.

    I am always very blunt with people in pointing out that if you don't vote, your opinion doesn't count. That's not just me blowing steam; it really doesn't. It's highly unlikely that there will ever be a candidate stand with whom you agree on everything (unless you run yourself) so your best chance for changing things the way you would prefer is to vote for the candidate/party that most closely aligns with your views.

    Not sure which party is most closely aligned with your views? This may help (found on the BBC website, and it's really quite good):

    EU Profiler - Discover your position in the political landscape for the 2009 European Parliament Elections

  11. 2 Thanks to AngryTechnician:

    OverWorked (3rd June 2009), tmcd35 (2nd June 2009)

  12. #40

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post
    This.

    I am always very blunt with people in pointing out that if you don't vote, your opinion doesn't count. That's not just me blowing steam; it really doesn't. It's highly unlikely that there will ever be a candidate stand with whom you agree on everything (unless you run yourself) so your best chance for changing things the way you would prefer is to vote for the candidate/party that most closely aligns with your views.

    Not sure which party is most closely aligned with your views? This may help (found on the BBC website, and it's really quite good):

    EU Profiler - Discover your position in the political landscape for the 2009 European Parliament Elections

    Fair enough about point about the party most closely aligned to your views... BUT you still have to actually vote, regardless of how you decide to choose the candidate that you actually vote for. Sometimes, you may have to choose the lesser evil to vote for (because of the choice on your ballot paper) rather than get a candidate/party that is a 'perfect match'. If you really feel strongly that nobody/ no party represents your views... stand for election! (And I'm not talking about you personally!)

    I still stand by my view that unless you actually vote for a candidate, there's little point objecting after the event to the candidate who has been elected. You could have done something about it in the first place.

  13. #41


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    My results -

    Conservatives 60%
    Liberal Democrats 60%
    UKIP 58%
    Labour 56%
    Green Party 54%
    BNP 46%

    So not really that useful, and its also about party ethics for me rather than just policy.

  14. #42
    enjay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elsiegee40 View Post
    Sometimes, you may have to choose the lesser evil to vote for (because of the choice on your ballot paper) rather than get a candidate/party that is a 'perfect match'.
    Very true. Where I used to live had a Conservative MP and very little showing from the Labour Party (middle class and farming communities, mostly) so the most effective anti-Tory vote (should you wish one) was actually Lib Dem, regardless of where your own views lay. A vote for Labour (or any other) was a vote wasted.

  15. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngryTechnician View Post

    Not sure which party is most closely aligned with your views? This may help (found on the BBC website, and it's really quite good):

    EU Profiler - Discover your position in the political landscape for the 2009 European Parliament Elections
    Interesting quiz, pretty much told me what I knew - life long Labour supporter should be voting Lib Dem. Certainly I'll be voting LD until such time as Labour as votable again (probably a term or two away).

  16. #44

    elsiegee40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones View Post
    Very true. Where I used to live had a Conservative MP and very little showing from the Labour Party (middle class and farming communities, mostly) so the most effective anti-Tory vote (should you wish one) was actually Lib Dem, regardless of where your own views lay. A vote for Labour (or any other) was a vote wasted.

    I grew up in Harrogate and it was exactly the same there. There was 1 Labour councillor in 1 ward and all the rest were Tory or Liberal. The only way to oust Robert Banks, Conservative MP (not that I was old enough to vote then) was for people to vote Liberal. Trouble is I think Phil Willis, the Liberal who did get elected, is now in trouble over the expenses scandal... so I'm not sure what will happen in Harrogate now!

  17. #45

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    If we had countrywide PR then your vote WOULD count.

    Bothering to go and spoil your ballot paper makes no sense at all to me - the only person who will see it is some lowly vote-counter who will just log it with all the others that have more than one tick, or are illegible etc. What's the point?
    I think that voting should be compulsory, as it is in MANY countries, BUT there must be a 'no confidence' box that you could tick.
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke



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