raising top-up fees, what say thee ?

[torledo]

I never said I wasn't helped, but that was under the previous system of fees where there was no maintenance grant. Under the new system they aren't waived for people on low incomes (unless I've missed something), you are just eligible for a maintenance grant instead. The net result is the same. My point is that the new system of fees seems to be no improvement over the previous systems, which I believe is where we agree.

is the maintenance grant a loan ? if not, what exactly has changed by moving to a maintenance grant ?

as for the nulabor/class snobbery thing. i have a problem both with nulabour and class snobbery, and yet it is a nulabour trait, so i hate the b****** even more. enjoy them while you've still got them and they can still afford to pay your tax credits, neither them nor the endless welfare funding will last forever.

before you ask, i'd be more inclined to vote libdem than tory....but that's not saying i will. my first inclination is not to vote for any of the gits.

[AngryTechnician]

is the maintenance grant a loan ? if not, what exactly has changed by moving to a maintenance grant ?

It's not directly a loan, but because you now have to pay the fees which are the same amount or higher, in effect it is a loan. So you're right, nothing has really changed in that respect except that if you aren't poor you don't get the grant and are worse off.

enjoy them while you've still got them and they can still afford to pay your tax credits, neither them nor the endless welfare funding will last forever.

Oh believe me, I don't like them either. I just despair because I don't think the next lot will be any better. I don't get tax credits; like I said, I was lucky enough to get my uni education and now don't have to rely on the welfare state at all, which is more than some poor buggers will get the more expensive that education becomes.

[apoth0r]

Well I am just pissed off with the whole system from my own experience, I was let down and now have to pay the price. I don't believe that being from a council estate works against you at all, there is every opportunity as everyone else to go to university these days and because my family pays a mortgage we're worse off then another person paying minimal fee's for a flat?
The benefits of living just above the line, oh wait, there are none.
Cheers!

[AyatollahPies]

A University education should be free for all, but you should have to prove that you have more than 2 brain cells to rub together. Having 5 A* grades proves nowt these days, which is unfair on those that are genuinely intelligent.

My dear old mum works in student finance, and you wouldn't believe the amount of people applying for funding, that cannot even read and fill in a form asking for their name and address etc correctly. Perhaps just being able to fill in this form should be the entry requirement.

The whole concept of sending 50% of the population to University is ridiculous.

[torledo]

A University education should be free for all, but you should have to prove that you have more than 2 brain cells to rub together. Having 5 A* grades proves nowt these days, which is unfair on those that are genuinely intelligent.

My dear old mum works in student finance, and you wouldn't believe the amount of people applying for funding, that cannot even read and fill in a form asking for their name and address etc correctly. Perhaps just being able to fill in this form should be the entry requirement.

The whole concept of sending 50% of the population to University is ridiculous.

i wouldn't mind so much topup fees, and allowing uni's to set tuition fees, but apply it retrospectively to everyone who attented university and now have a means to pay......why apply it only to those who've started uni after 200x ?? they have no control over when they were born.

All those high court judges, mp's, investment bankers, who've made a mint personally and benefited from free higher education in many cases, should be forced to make a contribution to the universities they attended....and we'll make it means tested while we're at it. how do you like them apples ?

that way it appears less like the generational theft the current system is ....

[treetops]

This following the last attempt to take the money from folks pensions! The only conclusion I can come to is that the powers that be simply do not care about us.

[grumpy_git]

I'm a student at the moment so you can imagine my views on this.

(Although I study in Scotland, I'm from England - so I have to pay a fee, but a lower one than if I went to uni in England).

However, it's astounding how much waste and stupidity goes on - like in other places. At the moment, our university is batting on about how there's a funding crisis - they have cut lecture times (so they need less lecturers), reduced the number of lab computers, cut back on lab helpers, cut back on staffing, buildings maintenance etc. At the moment they're whining at people for not turning lights out at night!

At the same time, they're throwing money down the drain on "rebranding" and "restructuring" departments, consultants for changing term times, a small fortune on a flashy new "postgrad welcome centre". Oh, and stuck speed bumps all over campus, which my back hates. Not to mention splashing out on corporate events and buffets for management (which by look of them they take full advantage of).

It reminds me strongly of so many organisations - like the school where I work outwith term times. "There's no money" they cry at any opportunity - before proceeding to offer management pay rises, throw money at flashy reception desk, and pay "educational consultants" a fortune to do "mock OFSTED" inspections... I recall the look on the Chief Beancounter's face when I presented a receipt for about £3 in petty cash for power splitters - at the same time that (tens of?) thousands were being spent on LCD display screens to scroll propaganda!

head.Desk.Bang();

</minirant>

[RabbieBurns]

what uni are you at up here out of interest?

[nephilim]

Well I am just pissed off with the whole system from my own experience, I was let down and now have to pay the price. I don't believe that being from a council estate works against you at all, there is every opportunity as everyone else to go to university these days and because my family pays a mortgage we're worse off then another person paying minimal fee's for a flat?
The benefits of living just above the line, oh wait, there are none.
Cheers!

i never said that there weren't opportunites, I saw one and grabbed it. But in alot of council estates in the country (not just luton) there is massive amounts of social deprivation which leads people to believe that they arent good enough to make a decent go at university, even if they did get financial help, which in turn gets them to believe that they should not go out and earn the money they would like. For example, a neighbour of mine has 9 daughters and 2 sons, he gets over £35'000 on state funding, yet for him to go out and get that in a job is near impossible because he speaks very little english.

It is a double standard in this country that those that DO NOT work get all the benefits that they could ever want and then some, but those that do go out, get an education and work hard for there money, get shafted by high taxes, no help in terms of tax credits when having children etc so where is the incentive?

[Jiser]

Even in the former polys you do have to have some brain cells be time you get to final year. Your results breakdown will show how capable you are.

Not any old idiot IMO can get go get a decent BSc/BA grade.

Anyway stilll scottish students should be paying!! Also its about time an Ofsted type thing (if one doesn't exist allready) is put into Uni's. The standard of alot of courses/lecturers is not up to scratch in hell of alot of places.

Worrying about what everyone is doing and how much taxes is not good. At least those who are working can die happy that they wern't scroungers!!

Back to topic - fees shouldn't be raised for those living in the U.K.Financial management should be bettered!

[SpuffMonkey]

Its just wrong! If graduates do so well financially after graduating - they'll be paying more tax back anyway (when I had a "proper" job I paid more in tax each month than I received as a grant per year when I was a student). With the current job outlook - it must be daunting to have £1000s of debt, and little prospect of securing a decent position. If I was 17-18 - I'd be seriously thinking about whether it was worth going to Uni - and thats not a decision that they ought to have to make if they are bright enough to take advantage of the opportunity.

In a similar vein - did anyone else see the reviews of the book last week that tied nearly every social ill to the amount of inequality in the society it was being measured in? US at the top of the list (with UK close behind) with large amounts of everything from robbery, abuse, obesity etc following the curve - right at the bottom - Sweden & Japan which apparently have the most equality (ie differential in pay and access to services between richest & poorest). Interesting I thought.