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General Chat Thread, The rich get richer... in General; Originally Posted by mattx Polly Toynbee's article today is interesting - in one sentance she sums it up for me: ...
  1. #31
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    Polly Toynbee's article today is interesting - in one sentance she sums it up for me:

    'Sir Fred is a product of Britain's winner-takes-all culture that Labour never attempted to civilise.'

    Polly Toynbee: Sir Fred's just one of millions to do better under Labour | Comment is free | The Guardian
    i'm sorry, but quoting toynbee is a thread all of itself. where to begin....

    first of all her article title is nonsense and at odds with large parts of her article, and she's all over the place with the content of her article saying something sensible one sentence and then saying something ludicrous and propogating mistruths the next.

    entirely predictable for her to get the usual nulabour 'success' stories in there. surestart, tax credits, handouts for the poor. yawn. do me a favour.

    but what can you expect from a nulabour luvvie like toynbee ?, she's been a rabid broon cheerleader for years, and even as the cold light of day shows most of their initiatives to be not up to much in reality, the luvvies continue to champion these supposedly fairer intiatives. And continue to portray brown and co. as these champions of the poor blindsided by the the CEO's and bankers.

    it's all hokum. do yourself a favour and stop reading toynbee....unless you really want to be a sheep. would you prefer to read something more illuminating. try this...

    BROWN REFUSES TO HAND BACK PENSION - The Daily Mash

  2. #32

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    Arrr, The Daily Mash - not sure whats worse - the Daily Mail or the Daily Mash...
    Answers on a postcard.....

  3. #33
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    Arrr, The Daily Mash - not sure whats worse - the Daily Mail or the Daily Mash...
    Answers on a postcard.....
    what's that supposed to mean ?

    you stick to toynbee then.....

    and carry on posting more of her witterings in between those sensationalist 'news' story links that you like to amuse us with.


    what's mattx favoured reading ? 'closer' or the notw ? answers on a postcard.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    what's that supposed to mean ?

    Well if you can't work it out then there is no hope for you.....

  5. #35
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    Well if you can't work it out then there is no hope for you.....
    i can work out that the mash link a posted is satire.

    but i'm stumped in trying to figure you out....are you just being a smart alec as usual or am i being really really slow. that's a rhetorical question, so you needed waste energy providing a one word answer.

    how's about a quick either or straw poll to figure out which one of us is beyond hope. i'd like to think you'd come off second best in that vote, maybe that's hubris or maybe......

    ......i'm not entirely oblivious to other people's contributions to a discussion if i can learn something from them. :cough: :cough:

  6. #36

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    torledo: don't waste your breath....(or typing fingers, in this case)

  7. #37
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    now harriet harperson decides to stick her oar in aswell about fred goodwins pension...to be fair that freak marr probably asked her about it, but her response has made it to the bbc frontpage.

    BBC NEWS | Politics | Harman warning on Goodwin pension

    what i find really funny is harperson referring to 'the court of public opinion' and how goodwins pension pot is 'money for nothing'.

    none of the bankers should be rewarded for failure but isn't harpersons final salary pension 'money for nothing' also.....what does she do again ?

    as for the 'court of public opinion', well nulabour can't be accused of not being populist over the last 8 years. perhaps that's why they've made such a mess of things.....trying to cater to the elusive 'public opinion' when it suits them and getting it hopelessly wrong.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    as for the 'court of public opinion', well nulabour can't be accused of not being populist over the last 8 years. perhaps that's why they've made such a mess of things.....trying to cater to the elusive 'public opinion' when it suits them and getting it hopelessly wrong.
    The "public" rarely know what's best for them.

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    there's no need for all the arguing over this pension the government have got you all where they want you, talking about it rather than who cause the problems in the first place, this shouldn't be about his pension. He's gonna need his pension let him keep it, instead of following all the media hype you should all be thinking for yourselves about how this whole thing came about in the first place, Flash Gordon.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroman View Post
    He's gonna need his pension let him keep it, instead of following all the media hype you should all be thinking for yourselves about how this whole thing came about in the first place, Flash Gordon.
    No one 'needs' 700 000 a year.

    As to blaming Gordon, yes, partly, but its been a series of successive government failures that've caused this. Not just the latest one.

  11. #41

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    While I share the sentiments expressed here and I am equally outraged at his 'payoff', the fact remains that this mans pension fund has been 'funded' by his & his employers (the shareholders) pension contributions and is his by right. The fact that he brought the bank to its knees because of his reckless leadership is indisputable but it does not remove the fact that his pension fund is legitimately his. It is not against the law to be reckless & useless at your job (especially in financial services or football management) so there does not appear to be any legal grounds for denying him his rights.

    We should really be questioning the wisdom of the authorities allowing him to receive 100% payout at 50, especially as none of the RBS employees taking early retirement would receive 100% payout.

    It is common practice (even in local govt) to sometimes offer enhanced pensions to encourage people to leave their employment. When I was offered early retirement (at 50) a few years ago I turned it down initially, my ex-employer came back with an improved offer which added 3 years to my pension..... admittedly a long way short of 100%

    If anything, I think the financial advisors & people that handled his 'seperation' from the bank are the people that need to be in the dock.....

  12. 2 Thanks to broc:

    mark (2nd March 2009), torledo (2nd March 2009)

  13. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    While I share the sentiments expressed here and I am equally outraged at his 'payoff', the fact remains that this mans pension fund has been 'funded' by his & his employers (the shareholders) pension contributions and is his by right. The fact that he brought the bank to its knees because of his reckless leadership is indisputable but it does not remove the fact that his pension fund is legitimately his. It is not against the law to be reckless & useless at your job (especially in financial services or football management) so there does not appear to be any legal grounds for denying him his rights.
    Unless they can pin him for criminal negligence.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroman View Post
    there's no need for all the arguing over this pension the government have got you all where they want you, talking about it rather than who cause the problems in the first place, this shouldn't be about his pension. He's gonna need his pension let him keep it, instead of following all the media hype you should all be thinking for yourselves about how this whole thing came about in the first place, Flash Gordon.
    pyroman, if you read some of my posts [and those of some other posters] you'll see that some of us are making the exact same point that you make about how he's a convenient scapegoat to divert attention from crash gordon. the govt. negotiated his departure back in october, they failed to do due diligence and look into the legality at the time and the whole thing has only been stoked up due to the details being leaked and then reported by robert peston [who else ?!!?]

    i just find it amusing that harriet whatsherface made such daft remarks, trying to differentiate the legal courts from the 'court of public opinion' and trying the old moral hazard line as if it'll somehow encourgae goodwin 'to do the right thing'....while making veiled threats about clawing the money back by introducing new legislation. not so much carrot and stick, but nulabour spin.

    As vince cable says that idea is potty, to bring out legislation for one case and one individual when all of this could have been averted if the govt. had gone through the details with a fine tooth comb during negotiations. Ofcourse all this debate is diverting attention, but minister antics over this have actually focused the attention on how the govts. are playing this.....which does not show them in a good light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    pyroman, if you read some of my posts [and those of some other posters] you'll see that some of us are making the exact same point that you make about how he's a convenient scapegoat to divert attention from crash gordon. the govt. negotiated his departure back in october, they failed to do due diligence and look into the legality at the time and the whole thing has only been stoked up due to the details being leaked and then reported by robert peston [who else ?!!?]

    i just find it amusing that harriet whatsherface made such daft remarks, trying to differentiate the legal courts from the 'court of public opinion' and trying the old moral hazard line as if it'll somehow encourgae goodwin 'to do the right thing'....while making veiled threats about clawing the money back by introducing new legislation. not so much carrot and stick, but nulabour spin.

    As vince cable says that idea is potty, to bring out legislation for one case and one individual when all of this could have been averted if the govt. had gone through the details with a fine tooth comb during negotiations. Ofcourse all this debate is diverting attention, but minister antics over this have actually focused the attention on how the govts. are playing this.....which does not show them in a good light.
    sorry man just flicked through the thread between jobs, wasn' trying to say u were all flapping.

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    Doesn't anyone else find Harriet's statement that the government can and will override the law rather scary?

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