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General Chat Thread, Submarines Collide in the Atlantic in General; Uk And French Nuclear Submarines In Midocean Collision (from The Herald ) How the H3ll could something like that happen ...
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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    Submarines Collide in the Atlantic

    Uk And French Nuclear Submarines In Midocean Collision (from The Herald )

    How the H3ll could something like that happen in this day and age

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    somabc's Avatar
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    They were playing Chicken!

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    hehe

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    PeterW's Avatar
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    Apparently the state of the navy these days isent very good and the training is also very poor. Its very shocking to see things like this happening.

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    Not really - ignoring the idea that the ocean is huge (because while it is, operational requirements will be similar for England and France) but modern subs are designed not to be detected. Hence, we have 2 subs in a similar location both trying their hardest to be invisible to anyone else. To use active sonar would completely defeat the object of the nuclear deterrent, so meh. Unfortunate, and could've been bad, but not suprising and not shocking.

    The only real way to avoid it is to share info with allies (like we do with the US), but again, that starts to defeat the object of having the nuclear warheads stationed on subs.

    That's why we use aircraft to find subs, and not other subs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hermand View Post
    Not really - ignoring the idea that the ocean is huge (because while it is, operational requirements will be similar for England and France) but modern subs are designed not to be detected. Hence, we have 2 subs in a similar location both trying their hardest to be invisible to anyone else. To use active sonar would completely defeat the object of the nuclear deterrent, so meh. Unfortunate, and could've been bad, but not suprising and not shocking.

    The only real way to avoid it is to share info with allies (like we do with the US), but again, that starts to defeat the object of having the nuclear warheads stationed on subs.

    That's why we use aircraft to find subs, and not other subs.
    Very good point.
    Last edited by FN-GM; 16th February 2009 at 05:16 PM.

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    Domino's Avatar
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    The registers article actually explains how it happened Brit, French nuke subs collide - fail to 'see' each other • The Register

    and to be fair there's not really any way to avoid this kind of thing with a stealth sub....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    The registers article actually explains how it happened Brit, French nuke subs collide - fail to 'see' each other • The Register

    and to be fair there's not really any way to avoid this kind of thing with a stealth sub....
    Good article compared to the hype of the Sun and the BBC.

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    Andrew_C's Avatar
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    Flippant reply time;
    Quote Originally Posted by hermand View Post
    The only real way to avoid it is to share info with allies <SNIP>
    That's why we use aircraft to find subs, and not other subs.
    We are talking about the French here, not our allies.

    Somewhat more seriously, I commend the book [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lions-Donkeys-Dinosaurs-Blundering-Military/dp/0099484420/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234810073&sr=8-1"]Lions, Donkeys and Dinosaurs[/ame] to anyone who's blood pressure will stand it. The author discusses why we insist on spending £billions keeping a fleet of destroyers working in the North Atlantic, patrolling the Iceland gap. Historically this was to keep the Red Banner Fleet from sneaking out; this fleet no longer exists as a military force, it is rusting to bits. His contention, is that the Navy protects these ships as they form part of the ladder to senior positions in the Navy. The Senior Service being self-serving? Never! (Oh, and don't think the other two branches get off scot-free; bombers- what a wonderful way to win hearts and minds)

    Subs are used to hunt other subs, we have at least some "Hunter-Killers", as do other navies. The film Hunt for Red October wasn't entirely made up.

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    RabbieBurns's Avatar
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    It galls me that the billions they just spent on some new aircraft carrier was the same amount it wuold have cost to run fibre to every single home in britain.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbieBurns View Post
    It galls me that the billions they just spent on some new aircraft carrier was the same amount it wuold have cost to run fibre to every single home in britain.
    Or the billions pumped into banks being used to give people bonuses...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    Subs are used to hunt other subs, we have at least some "Hunter-Killers", as do other navies. The film Hunt for Red October wasn't entirely made up.
    We do indeed, but they have a completely different role and operational model to the nuclear platforms being discussed here. My statement was very, to be fair, but we do only have about 10 attack type subs. They're pretty good at doing it but we have a lot of other kit, too. Including ships and helicopters, of course.

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    Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    The film Hunt for Red October wasn't entirely made up.
    no...but it did have a scottish russian submarine commander

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    somabc's Avatar
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    I don't believe it was an accident that they were in the same area. The ocean is literally huge and there is more likelihood of me winning the lottery every week for the next 1000 years than two random craft hitting each other.

    That location has some strategic importance for nuclear subs (perhaps for the potential to fire missiles at several continents) or either Britain or France was trying to track the other sub and they got too close.
    Last edited by somabc; 16th February 2009 at 09:18 PM.

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    mac_shinobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermand View Post

    That's why we use aircraft to find subs, and not other subs.
    apparently not in this instance / case as this time around the other sub seemed to do a good job hehe

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