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General Chat Thread, Legalities of P2P Downloads in General; I dont want to go into a full on P2P is illegal rantathon, but I would like someone in the ...
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    CHR1S's Avatar
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    Legalities of P2P Downloads

    I dont want to go into a full on P2P is illegal rantathon, but I would like someone in the know to clarify a few points for me.

    I know that its illegal to -

    Download copyright music
    Download copyright films
    Download copyrigh software

    But

    What are the legalities on Broadcast TV recorded by others including those from other countries? (Not DVD rips of TV shows either, but true watermarked broadcast shows)

    For instance, if I missed Top Gear or House or whatever (i.e My V+ was full) am I perfectly within my right to download a copy?
    What if a series isnt relesed in the UK but is airing in the US, It will be shown here eventually on sky etc so is it illegal?

    Thanks

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    fafster (22nd January 2009)

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    No to the first, yes to the second... There's no provision in law for "I forgot to set the video"/"It will be on here eventually so I'm just watching it in advance"..

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    CHR1S (22nd January 2009)

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    CHR1S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OutToLunch View Post
    No to the first, yes to the second... There's no provision in law for "I forgot to set the video"/"It will be on here eventually so I'm just watching it in advance"..
    So unless I have recorded it through my own Cable or DVB then its illegal? How draconian

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    I haven't kept up with the laws in this area, but I'm sure I heard/read somewhere back when I had a VCR, that you can only keep TV recordings for a limited amount of time - I think 6 months.

    There is an old maxim that applies here thou - "Any law that is unenforceable may as well not be law". How much police time would it take to track these recording and prove their illegality?

    Not that I'm in any way suggesting or condoning breaking the law.

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    As per the Copyright and Relegated Rights Regulations 2003.

    The Copyright and Related Rights Regulations 2003

    Provisions relating to recording for the purposes of time-shifting

    19. - (1) What is now section 70 shall become subsection (1) of section 70.

    (2) In the new section 70(1) after the words "The making" there shall be inserted " in domestic premises" and after that subsection there shall be inserted -

    " (2) Where a copy which would otherwise be an infringing copy is made in accordance with this section but is subsequently dealt with -

    (a) it shall be treated as an infringing copy for the purposes of that dealing; and

    (b) if that dealing infringes copyright, it shall be treated as an infringing copy for all subsequent purposes.

    (3) In subsection (2), "dealt with" means sold or let for hire, offered or exposed for sale or hire or communicated to the public.".

    (3) After paragraph 17 of Schedule 2 there shall be inserted -

    " Recording for the purposes of time-shifting

    17A. - (1) The making in domestic premises for private and domestic use of a recording of a broadcast solely for the purpose of enabling it to be viewed or listened to at a more convenient time does not infringe any right conferred by Part 2 in relation to a performance or recording included in the broadcast.

    (2) Where a recording which would otherwise be an illicit recording is made in accordance with this paragraph but is subsequently dealt with -

    (a) it shall be treated as an illicit recording for the purposes of that dealing; and

    (b) if that dealing infringes any right conferred by Part 2, it shall be treated as an illicit recording for all subsequent purposes.

    (3) In sub-paragraph (2), "dealt with" means sold or let for hire, offered or exposed for sale or hire or communicated to the public.

    (4) Expressions used in this paragraph have the same meaning as in section 70.".

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    CHR1S (22nd January 2009)

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    I think that enforcing the law re: videotapes is pretty unlikely. Enforcing the law regarding P2P downloads of video is much easier - it's happening now and for what might be thought of as legal videos (programme is shown on TV; someone records it using their TV card and shares it)

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    somabc's Avatar
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    Does the law make any distinction between simply downloading copyrighted material or sharing (uploading)?

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    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    Does the law make any distinction between simply downloading copyrighted material or sharing (uploading)?
    No, copyright theft is copyright theft either way.

    The majority (if not all) of these cases are dealt with through the civil courts rather than criminal. It would normally be the copyright holders solicitors who'll be contacting you regarding infringement.

    Generally speaking, the copyright holders (record companies, movie studios, etc) have targeted file sharers rather than those only downloading the content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    I dont want to go into a full on P2P is illegal rantathon, but I would like someone in the know to clarify a few points for me.

    I know that its illegal to -

    Download copyright music
    Download copyright films
    Download copyrigh software
    Technically speaking, it's not illegal to download the content, only to upload (share) it. The law only says that it's illegal to distribute copyrighted material for any gain (financial or otherwise).

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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    Does the law make any distinction between simply downloading copyrighted material or sharing (uploading)?
    Not as far as I am aware (Geoff will know) but the companies and the RIAA who are going after people are generally concentrating on the sharers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fafster View Post
    Technically speaking, it's not illegal to download the content, only to upload (share) it. The law only says that it's illegal to distribute copyrighted material for any gain (financial or otherwise).
    Pretty sure that's an urban myth in the same ball court as the "You can only download this ROM if you own it otherwise you must delete it in 24 hours" disclaimer - unless you're from Canada?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OutToLunch View Post
    Pretty sure that's an urban myth in the same ball court as the "You can only download this ROM if you own it otherwise you must delete it in 24 hours" disclaimer - unless you're from Canada?
    I thought it could be true in the US?

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    Quote Originally Posted by powdarrmonkey View Post
    Not as far as I am aware (Geoff will know) but the companies and the RIAA who are going after people are generally concentrating on the sharers.
    That was my understanding, but anyone who is using P2P will be sharing by the very nature of the beast.

    I have always wondered why the RIAA etc don't go after those "streaming" sites, though.

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    browolf's Avatar
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    what about news binaries, plenty of illegal stuff on there but no 'sharing issues', and yet they dont seem to be targeting those kinds of places...

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    Quote Originally Posted by browolf View Post
    what about news binaries, plenty of illegal stuff on there but no 'sharing issues', and yet they dont seem to be targeting those kinds of places...
    That's down to difficulty and the design of the system. It's so easy to make an anonymised posting that they'd have to go after the providers, many don't keep logs for long - some not at all depending on the country they're in. They'd have to go after taking down the hosts rather than the users and there are too many non infringing uses for usenet acccess. It would be like shutting down hotmail because people may email each other an MP3 file. Compare that to just trawling a torrent/P2P network for IP addresses to fire off John Doe letters to and you have your answer.

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