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General Chat Thread, Manchester C-Charge results in General; Originally Posted by Gatt 79% of Greater Manchester said NO.. 21% said Yes... Pretty conclusive I reckon!! But wasn't there ...
  1. #16

    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    79% of Greater Manchester said NO..
    21% said Yes...

    Pretty conclusive I reckon!!
    But wasn't there a turnout of just over 50%?

    Congestion charging is OK with sensible (read: affordable) charges, but only in conjunction with a reduction in other charges - tax, fuel etc...

  2. #17

    Gatt's Avatar
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    I think another issue was the 2 charging rings..
    If it had just been the inner ring (a la London) then it may have been a lot closer..

    The biggest Congestion area is Deansgate.. its a major route into and out of the centre, right through all the majors shops, etc.. All the buses, taxi's, delivery vans, HGVs, Commuters and shoppers use this road - as soon as traffic starts backing up on Deansgate it spreads out down all the side streets and can take ages to get though it..

    What should be considered is limiting traffic to either Public transport & deliveries, or pedestrianising most, if not all, of Deansgate... there are still plenty of roads - many with 2+ lanes - that can be used to redirect traffic around the city..

    But putting up 2 charging rings, and forcing people to pay 2 at the M60 and then a further 1 for the centre was ridiculous..

    It would have cost me approx 1200 a Year (30 a week) to get to and from work - even though I was only going about a mile and a half or so inside the outer ring!! (from: M27 0BH to: Unknown road - Google Maps)

    As many people have stated - if the 2.8Bn was available, why not just give us the cash?

  3. #18

    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatt View Post
    It would have cost me approx 1200 a Year (30 a week) to get to and from work - even though I was only going about a mile and a half or so inside the outer ring!! (from: M27 0BH to: Unknown road - Google Maps)
    Or nothing at all if you walk or cycle

  4. #19

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    Only way is up.

    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Congestion charging is OK with sensible (read: affordable) charges, but only in conjunction with a reduction in other charges - tax, fuel etc...
    Where has it been implemented sensibly in the UK?
    Tax and fuel both go up (above inflation)... along with congestion charge (aka money for nothing) as well as doubling is size.

    City 'center' taxes should be scrapped. Along with fuel duty. Greedy Bassas.
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 13th December 2008 at 05:37 PM.

  5. Thanks to Theblacksheep from:

    Oops_my_bad (13th December 2008)

  6. #20

    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    Never happens, tax and fuel both go up... along with congestion charge.
    Yes, I was thinking "ideal world" sort of scenario. If congestion charges are to take off and be accepted by the general public, it has to be structured so you pay less in other areas.

    The same sort of thing was brought up in the "pay as you go" black box for cars idea in previous years. All well and good, as long as there are price reduction in other aspects of driving.

    But as our Government are greedy bar stweards, as you say, it will never happen.

  7. #21

    Gatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Or nothing at all if you walk or cycle
    I dont think so...

    from: Home to: Work - Google Maps
    Last edited by Gatt; 13th December 2008 at 05:43 PM.

  8. #22

    webman's Avatar
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    Maybe not then

  9. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    The same sort of thing was brought up in the "pay as you go" black box for cars idea in previous years. All well and good, as long as there are price reduction in other aspects of driving.

    But as our Government are greedy bar stweards, as you say, it will never happen.
    Its frustrating, because its sold on such idealisc methods. When its been in place for a year... bang, the area is doubled and the prices goes up 20%, year on year....like fuel duty: if someone moans, just have a one year price freeze to make the people think they are actually getting a something back.

    Pay-as-you-go driving is just an excuse for nationwide vehicle tracking (info available to every dept of gov) and speed over distance fines everywhere.... feck, you could lose your licence by the time you get to work.


    PS: WELL DONE PEOPLE OF MANCHESTER!!
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 13th December 2008 at 05:46 PM.

  10. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    Tax and fuel both go up (above inflation)... along with congestion charge (aka money for nothing) as well as doubling is size.
    have you bought petrol recently? It's now cheaper than it was 12 months ago; given that inflation has been at least 5% in the past year that means that petrol is dramatically cheaper - ie it has not gone up above inflation!

  11. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    have you bought petrol recently? It's now cheaper than it was 12 months ago; given that inflation has been at least 5% in the past year that means that petrol is dramatically cheaper - ie it has not gone up above inflation!
    Petrol (at the pumps) has dropped by 25% since its highest point in the summer.

    But the cost of petrol (by the barrell) is under 50% of its price in the summer. It should be even cheaper than it was a year ago.

    The price of petrol is inflated by 65% through additional taxation.
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 13th December 2008 at 06:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    Petrol (at the pumps) has dropped by 25% since its highest point in the summer.

    But the cost of petrol (by the barrell) is over 50% of its price in the summer.

    Nearly 70p in the 1 goes to the government through fuel duty and VAT.
    And the pound sterling is only worth 75% of what it was last year; we pay for oil in dollars.

    None of this changes the fact that fuel has not gone up by more than inflation; it's actually come down!!!

    Perhaps it could be cheaper but that's not what you said!

  13. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by srochford View Post
    None of this changes the fact that fuel has not gone up by more than inflation; it's actually come down!!!
    Every year since 1993 the price has gone up at the pumps above 'natural' inflation, late 2008 is the exception, due to the collapse of the crude oil price. Even then we are paying more than what it should be (in line with the crude cost)!
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 13th December 2008 at 06:21 PM.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    But wasn't there a turnout of just over 50%?
    So, a better turn-out than your average General Election, then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NickJones View Post
    So, a better turn-out than your average General Election, then?
    Err, no, not by a long way.

    Turn out at UK general elections has averaged 74% in the past 60 years (numbers from the electoral commission)

    Although it is lower this decade, it was still 61.4% in 2005

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    Indeed, I stand corrected - it is just local elections which have a very low attendance rate, I had thought it was both local and General.

    Local authorities trialling all-postal pilot schemes saw turnout rise to an average of 50% in last night's local elections in England. In comparison, only a third of the electorate visited the ballot box across England as a whole.
    Source - Postal voting increases local election turnout in England - Electoral Commission

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