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General Chat Thread, IT Headhunters \ Recruitment Agencies in General; A Recruitment Company calls you up (unsolicited) and tells you they have a position ideal for you? What do you ...
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    somabc's Avatar
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    IT Headhunters \ Recruitment Agencies

    A Recruitment Company calls you up (unsolicited) and tells you they have a position ideal for you?

    What do you think, waste of time or golden opportunity? Do they have a great job on their books or are they sitting in a call centre trying to find as many CV's as possible that they send out?

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    Have you put your details out somewhere (CV on Monster etc) for them to find you, or are they just ringing and asking for the "Network Manager"? If it's the latter I'd treat it exactly the same as the spam emails you get saying "Ideal job opportunity in your area" where they think they miraculously know your skills and what kind of job you'd want without you ever having told anyone...

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    Here's a piece of semi-related gold for you all.

    If you are currently looking for a job, get a call from a recruiter and tell them which other roles you've applied for recently, you've just lowered your chance of getting them.

    How does that work?

    Simple. There are some unscrupulous bottom feeding agencies out there that aren't on preferred status, but rather have to find job openings like you and me, and then put their candidates forward. How do they do that? They call both your current job ("We hear someone's leaving soon, we do recruitment for jobrole, want help?") and the other places you've applied for recently ("We're from blahblah recruitment. I understand your looking for a jobrole? I have some great candidates...")

    A lot of "job adverts" out there are just honey traps from these companies trying to grab your CV, give you a ring and find out who's actually recruiting right now so they can sell their service.

    So they might get you 1 interview, but they will send 10 others to the interviews you've already had.


    Use them, but be careful! :-p


    edit: How do i know this? A year and a half ago i had a 2 week trial at a small recruitment firm. On day 2 these truths were revealed and I was put to work calling people from the essay banks claiming to have a job opportunity for them. None existed. Instead I was "sourcing new clients" for the company.

    I went along for a couple of hours, then went for lunch, had a long think about what I was doing and never returned. I decided that my morals were worth more than they were offering.
    Last edited by JohnMason; 10th December 2008 at 02:10 PM.

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    somabc's Avatar
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    Well they knew my name and employment history, it looks like they were using my short employment history from linkedin. Having never used an agency, being quite happy with my current job and somewhat caught off guard by being asked about your career goals, I told them thanks but no thanks.

    I was interested to see what other people experiences were for future reference.

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    I got my current job through an agency, one of the ones with preferred status with the company I'm now with. It made my life much easier, since they handled salary negotiations (after asking me what my ideal salary would be, and putting me in for the job at a higher one), came back to my regularly throughout the process to give me feedback on how the application was doing, what was likely to be asked at the interview and so on.Should I have to job hunt again, I will definitely be going down the agency route.The best bit was that they did the hunting for me. I hadn't even heard about the job which they put me forwards for, but it was ideal.

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    I treat it in exactly the same way as I deal with any other cold calls trying to sell me double glazing, printer spares or whatever...

    I'll only give my personal details away to people I've chosen to speak to

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    I worked for an IT Recruitment Company for over a year and I disagree with JohnMason, maybe the company he interviewed with didn't have a good rep, but generally that is not the case. In fact, it is against the law to advertise or recruit for a role that is 'non existent'.

    From working in recruitment, i would definitely recommend using an agency - my only word of advice is to NOT put your CV on the likes of 'Monster' or 'Jobserve' as EVERY agency, whether they are reputable or not, has access to it and will bombard you with job roles that are 'ideal' for you!! You find the companies you want to represent you, maybe a recommendation through a friend. Also a lot of agencies have a 'recommend a friend' scheme, where if they place a friend you recommended - you receive a % of the fee!!

    As jamesb said, you will probably end up on a better salary and stronger package when leaving it up to an agency, as that is there job. They do it all day every day and the more money they get for you - the more money they get themselves!!

    So yes, i would definitely use agencies to find a new job!!

    P.S - I can pass on details of a fantastic company (who i used to work for!!) if anyone is looking!!

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    But if the Agency is taking a slice you may get less?

    Eg Firm's budget is X
    Recruitment company's slice is Y

    You get X-Y.

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    It depends. Good slavetraders are useful, bad ones are just bloody annoying. If you use them, choose via word-of-mouth and insist on the following:

    Any changes to your cv / skillset have to be ok'd by you in writing.
    Keep everything in pdf format for when the above fails. Ignore their whining, cite bad experience with other recruiters if they persist.
    They should call and check if they're unsure about any of the skills/information you provide - they should not assume/google/ask colleagues.

    I turned up to an interview for a sysadmin/network admin role when the interviewer was expecting a java programmer. I asked to look at the cv that had been sent across to them and the slavetrader had extrapolated use of tomcat > uber java programmer. Neither I or the employer used them again.

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    Mandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    But if the Agency is taking a slice you may get less?

    Eg Firm's budget is X
    Recruitment company's slice is Y

    You get X-Y.
    I disagree - the agency knows the budget range i.e £40-50k before hand, so they will approach candidates looking for £40-45k, they will tell the company you are looking from between ££47-52k, and the agency get an agreed % of your salary, usually between 15-25%.

    The % is all agreed before they start interviewing, so no money is taken out of your salary!!

    Everyones happy!!

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    Mandy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pete View Post
    Any changes to your cv / skillset have to be ok'd by you in writing.
    It is also illegal for them to change your CV, so any good one won't!!

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    Hi,

    If you allow me to give one advice. I've been working in the IT Security Sector and in 2007, Monster network was hacked. We have been informed of this case (article at the link below if you are interested)

    The worst IT security incidents of 2007 - at ZDNet.co.uk

    If a recruitment company call you with a "private phone number" and a golden opportunity, ask them to send you the job spec by email. At least you are sure of who you are dealing with. But don't give any personal details on you or your salary to a "ghost call"

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    From personal experience, an utter waste of time and effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandy View Post
    I worked for an IT Recruitment Company for over a year and I disagree with JohnMason, maybe the company he interviewed with didn't have a good rep, but generally that is not the case. In fact, it is against the law to advertise or recruit for a role that is 'non existent'.

    From working in recruitment, i would definitely recommend using an agency - my only word of advice is to NOT put your CV on the likes of 'Monster' or 'Jobserve' as EVERY agency, whether they are reputable or not, has access to it and will bombard you with job roles that are 'ideal' for you!! You find the companies you want to represent you, maybe a recommendation through a friend. Also a lot of agencies have a 'recommend a friend' scheme, where if they place a friend you recommended - you receive a % of the fee!!

    As jamesb said, you will probably end up on a better salary and stronger package when leaving it up to an agency, as that is there job. They do it all day every day and the more money they get for you - the more money they get themselves!!

    So yes, i would definitely use agencies to find a new job!!

    P.S - I can pass on details of a fantastic company (who i used to work for!!) if anyone is looking!!
    I'm not saying all are bad. I've had very good experiences with recruitment companies. However, there are some very bad ones out there. If mental alarm bells start ringing, just avoid them.

    What law is it against? I'm actually quite interested here from a "studied law at uni and can't see how that'd work" perspective.

    But yes, like I said it was a small scummy one with no preferred status postings, mainly operating by throwing people found on job boards towards roles found by asking other people who they'd been interviewed by recently. They'd even fish for the recruiting person's name by asking "Ah, companyname, we have a few roles from them too. Was it Sally that interviewed you?" hoping for a "nah, it was Mark". Now they have a firm hiring now and the interviewers name to get their foot in the door.

    On the other hand, I had companies not ask once which specific companies I was interviewing for already, who sent me to some very relevant interviews and actually tried to get me something I was looking for, rather than just throwing me at as many jobs as possible hoping one stuck. Often with those good ones, the fact Agency XYZ sent me would make the interviewer open up and be more friendly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    But if the Agency is taking a slice you may get less?

    Eg Firm's budget is X
    Recruitment company's slice is Y

    You get X-Y.
    Not true.

    Firms budget is X. If they recruit without an agency, their costs are X+Y. If they recruit using an agency their costs are X+Z. Y is almost always larger than Z. It's cheaper for them to use an agency than to successfully advertise the position, manage the responses and draw up an acceptable interview shortlist.



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