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General Chat Thread, Pay and Grading - Bolton in General; On the 30th of September Bolton council employees received their job evaluation letters. Details are below 40% winners, 43% stay ...
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    Angry Pay and Grading - Bolton

    On the 30th of September Bolton council employees received their job evaluation letters. Details are below
    40% winners, 43% stay the same and 17% losers
    Starts April 2009
    Protection until January 2012
    No back pay
    In our department (schools ICT) there were big losses, personally I stand to lose £3.5k.
    With the union supporting the pay cuts it is left to the victims to discuss what we can do.

  2. 4 Thanks to tdkmillsy:

    jimmyshin (20th October 2008), John_Howarth (20th October 2008), Oops_my_bad (20th October 2008), zag (19th November 2008)

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    We're getting ours next week in West Norfolk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdkmillsy View Post
    On the 30th of September Bolton council employees received their job evaluation letters. Details are below
    40% winners, 43% stay the same and 17% losers
    Starts April 2009
    Protection until January 2012
    No back pay
    In our department (schools ICT) there were big losses, personally I stand to lose £3.5k.
    With the union supporting the pay cuts it is left to the victims to discuss what we can do.
    If I remember correctly, the money that schools pay out for their support staff salaries comes from main school budget; this is calculated based upon the number of students at your school and is not based upon how many support staff the school has, or what level. This means that the school will be the only 'winner' if your pay is cut, the council should not be able to get their hands on any savings. I think more than one LA has 'tripped' up over this fact.

    Bearing this in mind, discuss with your line manager/HT the possibility of regrading you by modifying your actual job spec so that they can maintain your salary. It is in the schools interest to keep staff happy after all; it will cost them more to recruit & replace you if you decide you can no longer afford to work there.

    Also make sure the job spec you have been evaluated against accurately reflects your role, particularly if you have any supervisory responsibility as this carries extra 'weight' in job evaluation.
    Last edited by broc; 13th October 2008 at 03:13 PM.

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    ninjabeaver's Avatar
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    Yeah, Norfolk here as well.

    Our pay is being back dated if we get a rise. Our pay is frozen for three years if we are losing out as well, so thats three years to get a new job, regrade etc.

    Your union did not put up much of a fight for your area though. I'd be really disgruntled over that.

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    You can also put an equal pay claim based on an equivelent job elsewhere within the local county council. Putting one in based on the job spec/pay of a IT techie in county hall is your best bet.

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    KWestos's Avatar
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    I went through this with my last employer - local government.

    I won't tell you who it was but the way they implemented it is now used as a best example of 'WORST' practice.

    My position was a Systems Integration Officer, there were two of us in the department. We had separate interviews, he ended up on £1,000 more than me. I appealed and by this time they (the management) we more adept at the answers you could give and I went down again. I appealed for the last time only to find out I just scraped into the pay scale lower than my colleague after re-banding had taken place. I found out I was paid £2,500 less than my colleague who did the exact same job. 80% of the council went up, 10% stayed the same and 10% went down.

    I found that administrative temps were on the same salary, because they dealt with the public - it was a total sham! The CEO was fired and the Finance Director was applauded, work that one out.

    All in all, the Unions are a complete joke. We were one of the first authorities in the Country to run job evaluation and we used a computerised q and a's. They just would not listed, it cost the Council £1.5M extra in wages. This was for a very small local authority.

    So basically, anyone who says, they can't do that to me is deluded. The only option you have is if your school is a Trust school, then and only then, if you have the backing of your SLT would they pay you what you are worth!

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    Unhappy Time to go...

    Quote Originally Posted by tdkmillsy View Post
    On the 30th of September Bolton council employees received their job evaluation letters. Details are below
    40% winners, 43% stay the same and 17% losers
    Starts April 2009
    Protection until January 2012
    No back pay
    In our department (schools ICT) there were big losses, personally I stand to lose £3.5k.
    With the union supporting the pay cuts it is left to the victims to discuss what we can do.
    Not sure there's much we can do, other than vote with our feet. Time will tell, but I'm not planning to hang around long enough to get caught up in the mess. Shame really because the job is alright, the people are great and I think we provide a valuable service to the schools. Seems that all good things must come to an end.

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    broc's Avatar
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    If you look at Labour Union Digest, Labour, Trade Union, Political news, features and opinion you will see how well (or otherwise) job evaluation or single status is going across the UK.

    One other point; the employers will talk about winners & losers as part of job evaluation; if they have a part time cleaner who has more than one job at the council (as many do) and the cleaners receive a much deserved increase in their hourly rate, those with multiple jobs will be counted multiple times as 'winners' for each job.

    This is a convenient way of skewing the ratio of winners/losers......

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    Well the unions have agreed to the regrading etc... but will then ballot their members after next week when our letters come out to see if we agree to it.

    I do think it's disgusting that I could be in line for a pay cut after working for norfolk lea for around 8 years.

    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    One other point; the employers will talk about winners & losers as part of job evaluation;
    Yes, we were repeatedly referred to as "losers" during a briefing the other week. All that was missing was a Clarksonesque L on the forehead. It wasn't very well appreciated as you can imagine...

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    It is upto your HT how much you get payed (within reason). Dont let anyone tell you "oh its not possible to pay you more money than this grade". If your HT wants to make up a job title just for you and pay you £xxxxx pa then thats upto him, not the council.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdkmillsy View Post
    On the 30th of September Bolton council employees received their job evaluation letters. Details are below
    40% winners, 43% stay the same and 17% losers
    Starts April 2009
    Protection until January 2012
    No back pay
    In our department (schools ICT) there were big losses, personally I stand to lose £3.5k.
    With the union supporting the pay cuts it is left to the victims to discuss what we can do.
    at least you know what your outcome is.... were still waiting to get our letters...

  14. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by tdkmillsy View Post
    With the union supporting the pay cuts it is left to the victims to discuss what we can do.
    The only thing that you can do is to appeal the decision on the grounds that you were matched to the wrong post. Don't bother trying to appeal against anything else, obviously you need to check the post you've been matched to (the role not the title). There will be a time limit for appeals, so make sure you get the appeal in. The union will have negotiated a protection agreement, so you probably won't be out of pocket for a couple of years.

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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by notlob View Post
    Not sure there's much we can do, other than vote with our feet. Time will tell, but I'm not planning to hang around long enough to get caught up in the mess. Shame really because the job is alright, the people are great and I think we provide a valuable service to the schools. Seems that all good things must come to an end.
    Yeah it's a bit of a 'Would the last person out please switch the lights off' scenario

    Unfortunately this may be the only realistic option. As you say, it's a shame as I used to enjoy the job but if you want to take 10%+ off me in addition to the fact that I've not had a payrise for around 5 years now....well there really is one option. Added to this the erosion of all the 'benefits' that working for the council used to bring and you end up with many unhappy people.

    The sad thing is, we give the schools a bloody good service (even if they sometimes don't realise) and this entire procedure will just make the unit weaker. Yes people will leave and yes they will get replaced but at the wages they are offering I dare say that replacements wont have either the experience or understanding of what is involved. And this is in all posts throughout the unit. The result is that we will be in a weaker position - ripe for takeover/outsourcing as we';ll be increasing seen as a failing unit and that will be the end of that. Schools will then suffer as they increasingly do 'their own thing' and there will be no-one left with an overall picture of how the LA should be moving forward with ICT. Systems will become disjointed and the whole thing will end up a mess.

    I realise this is all doom and gloom but sadly it's the only way I see things going.

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    Over the last few days i have been preparing for a drama show. I speced and made sure a new audio install all went to plan only 2 days before the show, ended up having no dinner for 3 days running and worked over 2 hours one night. I have sorted all the lighting, replacing parts as needed, changed gels, configured the 2 lighting mixers, sorted the wiring etc. Generally runing round like a headless chicken.

    I am the only person in the school who fully understands all of it, added to that my network/computers skills and the fact i have installed every system in our school and i think "they" get a pretty good deal for my capped <£15k pa.

    Wonder how much it would have cost for an external company come managed services...

  17. Thanks to j17sparky from:

    Oops_my_bad (20th October 2008)

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