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General Chat Thread, Diaries in General; Originally Posted by localzuk So both of you can't read then? :P A few posts above, I described the process ...
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    ahuxham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    So both of you can't read then? :P

    A few posts above, I described the process of arranging meetings with a paper diary, and then one with the electronic system. The time saved by using an electronic system would far outweigh the initial investment cost.

    Do you see IBM using paper diaries? How about the county council? RM?

    Yes, not everything needs to be done with ICT, but the point of ICT is to make people's lives easier and make tasks that previously took an age to do now take a couple of seconds. I doubt you say 'I prefer to write my letters out by hand, because computers could be down' or 'I'll pay for everything with cash, as the computer systems running card payments may be down'...

    Diaries are a very obvious area of life which should be electronic.
    No, that kind of process is for someone thats afraid of using the phone, just call the person, arrange a time out of diaries, commence social interaction, complete electronic processing negates any social behavior.

    And as far as I know, does my schools stature match that of IBM, CC and RM? I think not. Your references fail.

    EDIT: As per not reading, I am addressing your initial post, if you feel you have more worthless crap to add too it, edit the post, make adjustments and I'll appropriate my response to that.

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    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    complete electronic processing negates any social behavior.
    Does that matter? You're arranging to meet the person anyway ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    No, that kind of process is for someone thats afraid of using the phone, just call the person, arrange a time out of diaries, commence social interaction, complete electronic processing negates any social behavior.

    And as far as I know, does my schools stature match that of IBM, CC and RM? I think not. Your references fail.
    Staff do not have phones. They have laptops, voicemail and pigeon holes.

    How many people are in your school? We have 120 staff here for 600 pupils. That is the same sort of size as a branch office of IBM, is larger than most departments at our county council and would be a good sized office for IBM...

    But if those anologies aren't any good. How about your local doctor's surgery? Every one of ours uses electronic diaries, and we're in a relatively rural area.

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    I have both a PDA and a paper diary. Both are useful in their own right but the paper diary is the one I use all the time.

    I used to have a Blackberry but I accidentally dropped it overboard whilst sea-fishing off the coast of Minehead a couple of weeks back. The Old Ship Aground pub/hotel was very nice.
    Last edited by tech_guy; 16th July 2008 at 03:42 PM.

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    ahuxham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Does that matter? You're arranging to meet the person anyway ...
    You arrange a meeting with a member of the SMT. You call whom?

    I would call any of the SMT's PA's, I'm not going into the meeting with them, I wont see them there, therefore some social interaction would be nice, and all the PA's are, always got something nice to talk about.

  6. #21

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    EDIT: As per not reading, I am addressing your initial post, if you feel you have more worthless crap to add too it, edit the post, make adjustments and I'll appropriate my response to that.
    First, my comment was a joke, hence the emoticon (which is pretty obvious!). Second, this is a forum, and as such information is added in threads. The original posts aren't altered to add information, instead, a response is made to later posts. Finally, please don't call what I say worthless crap. It's just childish.

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    ahuxham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Staff do not have phones. They have laptops, voicemail and pigeon holes.

    How many people are in your school? We have 120 staff here for 600 pupils. That is the same sort of size as a branch office of IBM, is larger than most departments at our county council and would be a good sized office for IBM...

    But if those anologies aren't any good. How about your local doctor's surgery? Every one of ours uses electronic diaries, and we're in a relatively rural area.
    I'm sorry, but your basing your whole argument and clauses to your school, because your Teachers do not have phones.

    Ours do, they can call from wherever and make a phone call, even if not in classroom all departments have phones, its not like someone's going to call during a lesson is it? During free time, where they have access to their phones.

    600 students are irrelevant, that do not operate at the same level, they do not go into meetings, they do not have phones (however they're more than welcome to use any departments phones to call members of staff) As a result, your IBM statement fails YET AGAIN.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Does that matter? You're arranging to meet the person anyway ...
    Precisely. I have a lot of social interaction in my day. By going to meetings I have arranged, that others have arranged for me and by going and speaking to people to fix problems. Time spent looking through paper diaries in order to find time is simply wasted time. We're working, not in social clubs...

    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    I'm sorry, but your basing your whole argument and clauses to your school, because your Teachers do not have phones.
    Actually, I'm basing it on my experience from a number of schools. All suffering with the same problems of meetings taking forever to arrange. And most schools do not give phones to all staff! That is just plain ridiculous.

    Ours do, they can call from wherever and make a phone call, even if not in classroom all departments have phones, its not like someone's going to call during a lesson is it? During free time, where they have access to their phones.
    Yes, people ring phones in communal areas all the time, during lesson times, break times etc... (We have phones in 3 communal areas in our school, all cause problems). Phones (either internal extensions or any other form) in classes are disruptive, and as such aren't allowed in our school.

    600 students are irrelevant, that do not operate at the same level, they do not go into meetings, they do not have phones (however they're more than welcome to use any departments phones to call members of staff) As a result, your IBM statement fails YET AGAIN.
    Example: IBM now run the resources directorate for Somerset County council. As such they have a local branch office in Taunton with less than the number of staff than we have in our school. So yes, my statement doesn't fail. But at the same time, you have ignored the other examples...

    Also, block caps is shouting, so is rude. And you state that I am basing my argument on my school, which I am not, but it does appear that you are doing so with your school.
    Last edited by localzuk; 16th July 2008 at 03:48 PM.

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    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    You arrange a meeting with a member of the SMT. You call whom?

    I would call any of the SMT's PA's, I'm not going into the meeting with them, I wont see them there, therefore some social interaction would be nice, and all the PA's are, always got something nice to talk about.
    Then I would use the electronic diary of the member of the SMT to which their PA also has access to where they can confirm/accept/decline appointments. Simple. And no time wasted with idle gossip

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    Quote Originally Posted by webman View Post
    Then I would use the electronic diary of the member of the SMT to which their PA also has access to where they can confirm/accept/decline appointments. Simple. And no time wasted with idle gossip
    Wouldn't you call the PA and still check the appointment (Where they would than check electronically), or would you rather check the member of SMT's calendar without prior permission to-do so?

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    I have my outlook calendar, PDA and a paper diary. I find the paper diary very usefull for taking notes etc when i go out on visits to other schools. Although i have just got me a HP Mininote so i will start using that.

  12. #27

    webman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    Wouldn't you call the PA and still check the appointment (Where they would than check electronically), or would you rather check the member of SMT's calendar without prior permission to-do so?
    Why would I call? They confirm or decline the appointment electronically... Most calendars here are set up so that free/busy information is shared with other staff; while some calendars have additional special permissions for certain staff.

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    The thing is unless people keep everything in their electronic diaries some of the problems outlined in the OP still exist regarding rescheduling. For example if I have a dentist appointment immediately after school I might not enter it into my public diary so someone could assume that I'm free them and schedule a meeting based on this which we then have to untangle!

    Cheers
    Jona

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahuxham View Post
    Wouldn't you call the PA and still check the appointment (Where they would than check electronically), or would you rather check the member of SMT's calendar without prior permission to-do so?
    I wouldn't. The people who use electronic diaries here (my boss and the head) allow people to see their diaries, as they are only there to keep track of school related issues. Nothing should be put in a diary which is personal anyway!

    And meetings with them are confirmed electronically with a click of a button. Our head has limited time (like everyone else) so doesn't need to spend forever on phones arranging meetings (nor does his PA). Clicking a button yes or no takes no time at all and gives everyone piece of mind that the meeting is scheduled and will go ahead as planned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jona View Post
    The thing is unless people keep everything in their electronic diaries some of the problems outlined in the OP still exist regarding rescheduling. For example if I have a dentist appointment immediately after school I might not enter it into my public diary so someone could assume that I'm free them and schedule a meeting based on this which we then have to untangle!
    The head and my boss here simply enter an appointment with 'Personal appointment' when they are not available for things like that. Solves that problem.

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    Well lets see if ict makes peoples lives easier why do they need techies to fix it when it goes wrong. and the amount of work that has been lost due to crashes theft ect. as to ibm and councils i cant say but i bet theres a few paper diaries in the council offices. and as for rm if they used paper at least there stuff would work... as to letter writing ive not had a letter ive sent go missing but ive had emails just vanish into the ether. and as for card payments i do use that over the internet but at least when you paid for everything in cash you didnt see youre bank account suddenly empty..... ps i can read and the comment that diaries should be electronic well i hope after youve planned youre life in youre pda it then dosent crash just as youre in that very important meeting as they are prone to do... while paper will still be there..... (my comments are my own)

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