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General Chat Thread, Unison Strike in General; Originally Posted by SteveT As for "not able to afford it", the union does have a hardship fund if this ...
  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveT View Post
    As for "not able to afford it", the union does have a hardship fund if this is really true, but I suspect in many cases (not all) this is just another excuse to let others do all the work but happy to take the benefits.
    What about the vast majority that won't join a union - they're all happy to take the benefits - they don't pay as we do for negotiators, then they also have no compulsion whatsoever to strike.

    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I support democracy (when it is done properly!), so long as a reasonable number of people actually vote. 26% of the membership replying to the ballot is pathetic, and simply does not represent enough of the membership to make a judgement based on.
    The process is agreed by your union, how much of a turnout constitutes a valid mandate to action - you have the chance to vote on that process, and get involved in the descision making. And you know very well that turnouts to vote are always very low. We wouldn't have a UK Parliament if we followed that logic.

    My estimate on Unison membership was overly generous - it's more like 20% of the eligible workforce.

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    I have registered with a petition that went to the office of the Deputy PM in 2006 that local and national govt elections should be compulsory to attend, even if all you do is spoil your paper
    I agree i've been an advocate of compulsory voting for ages.


    @ mark, i said earlier on to someone else that this is a two way street

    but happy to take the benefits
    You are aware that technically an offer can be withdrawn so i might not get the 2.4% that i'm happy to take, not to mention if any rise isn't backpaid.

    They said that's not likely but that isn't necessarily the point, i want my 2.4% payrise now but i'll have to wait for months to get it now (most likely) and possibly without backpay.
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 30th June 2008 at 03:18 PM.

  3. #63

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    Re: numbers of people voting, whilst a lot of it is apathy I suspect that in the case of building society votes it's because people haven't got the time to invest in reading and understanding the pages and pages of rubbish that is sent with the voting form. Besides which, it is often a vote between a bunch of people that the prospective voters know nothing of: should they vote for:

    Mr Spendtheinvestorscashonyachtsandhookers,
    Miss Oneoftheservantsdaredtofoldmyunderwearincorrectly or
    Mr Ialwaysusehundredpoundnotestosnortmyccainewith ?

    Who knows?

    In the case of government elections, its partially because we know that whoever gets in, those on lower wages will be screwed - there seems little point in voting. (I always do, btw - but I can see why many don't).

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    No, I do complain.

    I have registered with a petition that went to the office of the Deputy PM in 2006 that local and national govt elections should be compulsory to attend, even if all you do is spoil your paper.

    People are too quick to forget the effort that has gone into giving us the opportunity of choice. Being honest, when the unions did have a stronger presence we did have better turnout as voting was something people accepted that we *all* should do ... now, there is an apathy no matter whether it is union, govt, or recreational group elections.

    There is even a noted drop in building society members voting.

    I believe that the only thing that will change it is forcing the recognition that voting is important .. even the choice not to vote.
    I think it is the apathy that gets me;

    My wife had a colleague (and fellow Unison union member) who said " I don't agree with the call for a strike, so I threw my ballot paper in the bin". How many thousands were like her I wonder, or how many others were in favour but couldn't be bothered to vote either?

    But, I believe in the democratic process, and despite voting against the strike I will accept the decision, in the same way as I have to accept (until the next election) the local and political leaders 'we' have elected to govern us.

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    Compulsory voting is a bad idea you would get to many people ticking random boxís or worse just ticking the name they like the sound of best. I would much rather the all the people who currently skip voting donít vote, then vote randomly.

    What we need in my mind is a better way to judge who is better to vote for.

  6. #66
    zag
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    I really don't like the idea of striking, the people who do seem to be to be selfish and arrogant. Its not like someone is forcing you to work in the public sector, if you don't like the pay or conditions, go look for another job. Its not that difficult

    A large scale pay rise in public sector will lead to massive inflation and a turbulent economy.

    Try working in the private sector for a few years and raising the prospect of a millitant strike, see how long your job lasts then

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    Quote Originally Posted by ittech View Post
    I really don't like the idea of striking, the people who do seem to be to be selfish and arrogant.
    This is a very inflammatory, misguided and offensive statement. You should think very carefully before posting comments like this.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by ittech View Post
    I really don't like the idea of striking, the people who do seem to be to be selfish and arrogant. Its not like someone is forcing you to work in the public sector, if you don't like the pay or conditions, go look for another job. Its not that difficult
    Go and tell that to the miners of yester-year.

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    I really don't like the idea of striking, the people who do seem to be to be selfish and arrogant
    Can't say i agree with that

    Its not like someone is forcing you to work in the public sector, if you don't like the pay or conditions, go look for another job.
    A fair point. Also often overlooked is job security especially with the UK unemployment rate predicted to rise to 8% by 2010
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 30th June 2008 at 03:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ittech View Post
    I really don't like the idea of striking, the people who do seem to be to be selfish and arrogant. Its not like someone is forcing you to work in the public sector, if you don't like the pay or conditions, go look for another job. Its not that difficult

    A large scale pay rise in public sector will lead to massive inflation and a turbulent economy.

    Try working in the private sector for a few years and raising the prospect of a millitant strike, see how long your job lasts then
    Before dismissing your fellow local government workers as selfish & arrogant, read the following document :

    UNISON the public service union

    Bear in mind that not everyone who works in local government works in ICT & can move so easily into another job, especially the many thousands of low paid, part-time staff who clean & care for others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey View Post
    Compulsory voting is a bad idea you would get to many people ticking random boxís or worse just ticking the name they like the sound of best. I would much rather the all the people who currently skip voting donít vote, then vote randomly.

    What we need in my mind is a better way to judge who is better to vote for.
    I disagree. If the system was implemented properly - ie. having a 'non of the above' option, then people could simply tick that. I think if people were made to vote then they may spend a few minutes looking at who they are voting for - even if that means picking up a copy of a news paper.

    The more people that vote the better. I'd be happier in general if this was the case - as people would have a more solid standing to complain rather than the armchair whining we have at the moment.

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    oh dear i have managed to get that week off holiday!

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    There is the other option with random voting ... it s random so no single party gets more votes than others.

    Ok, it is not that simple and there is the risk of vote rigging, targeted marketing to deal with confused voters and grab votes from them ...

    But these are things that can be overcome or dealt with until society swings back to the idea of actually making a decision and taking part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ittech View Post
    I really don't like the idea of striking, the people who do seem to be to be selfish and arrogant. Its not like someone is forcing you to work in the public sector, if you don't like the pay or conditions, go look for another job. Its not that difficult

    A large scale pay rise in public sector will lead to massive inflation and a turbulent economy.

    Try working in the private sector for a few years and raising the prospect of a millitant strike, see how long your job lasts then
    You are trolling now, and this has been a reasonably polite debate.

    Please refrain from being inflammatory like this unless you have a point to make. If this is your point I would suggest you flesh it out a little more and wear asbestos underwear.

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    It was 40 years ago this week...


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