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General Chat Thread, Harman pushes discrimination plan in General; BBC NEWS | Politics | Harman pushes discrimination plan "The equalities minister said firms should be able to choose a ...
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    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    Harman pushes discrimination plan

    BBC NEWS | Politics | Harman pushes discrimination plan

    "The equalities minister said firms should be able to choose a woman over a man of equal ability if they wanted to"
    Can't this work both ways?


    "We've got a new post coming up, we've got equally qualified men and women going for it, we are going to pick the woman because we want to have a more balanced top team."
    Surely that must work the same in reverse. I know people who work in HR and say allot of HR teams are all female, they can't just hire a male to balance the team due to discrimination issues.


    This is just common sence in my oppinion, if a company has a good case for wanting a male or female then they should be able to do it. Not quite sure why this law has to be slanted in favour of women, what's needed is a bigger push for equality.


    What you all think?
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 26th June 2008 at 12:03 PM.

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    I think equality is mental.

    People who have worked for the LEA for a few years here get a maximum of 31 days (or even 32 days holidays) where as new starters can only achieve 27 (I think).

    That's a whole 4 days difference between new starters and older employee's. It's outragious, and the council are one of the biggest culprits for it.

    Where my Dad works (council, but not saying where) they took out the kitchen and turned it into a prayer room!

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    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with equality, it's the creation of a law that will allow discrimination against a group that i find shocking.

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    Which means that people will now get turned down for a job so that they can meet their "equality" targets...

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    What she seems to be saying is that you could legaly hire a woman into an all male team over male candidates just for that reason but you couldn't hire a male into an all female team for that reason only. So yes i suppose you're right there.

    I'm sorry but promoting equality through inequality is absolutly barking
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 26th June 2008 at 12:44 PM.

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    Gatt's Avatar
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    which in itself is discriminatory against male employees ...

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    Age discrimination will also be outlawed in the provision of goods and services, such as holidays and insurance
    hmm so does that mean insurance companies wont be allowed to charge hundreds of pounds extra because a driver is only 19?

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    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    I'm also confused by this statement

    Female part-time workers still earned 40% less per hour than their full-time male counterparts
    Why not compare part-time female workers with part-time male workers? Or full-time female workers with full-time male workers?

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    This is the problem, when they want equality they mean their version of equality which means picking the people they want you to hire. Was reading about the police entrance requirements and found out we are one of the few countries who don't require a proper fitness test to enter. Apparently it was scrapped as it reduced the numbers they could choose from for equality!? Go figure

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    I'm also confused by this statement



    Why not compare part-time female workers with part-time male workers? Or full-time female workers with full-time male workers?
    yeah, i too found that statement a bit bizarre.......but i do understand the point being made by the govt. and campaigners . I fully appreciate that women do feel a certain amount of discrimination in terms of pay and career progression if they opt or part-time work due to family commitment, AND that they can often accomplish as much, if not more, during their part-time hours than colleagues who do the same role full-time becuase they are more focused.....

    unfortunately the words part-time and low paid are inextricably linked in this country as are the words working mom and part-time admin....the idea of going home at 3:00 pm every day and having fridays off may not be a big deal to our continental cousins....but here, for some reason it's regarded as being a bit of a lightweight and the pay reflects the status of part-timers, and the general view that the (predomaintly female) part-time workforce are not serious about their careers - which is ofcours balony... I believe this attitude has to change, as should the attitude toward pro-rata/term-time emplotees...we must regard and treat pro-rate and part-time employees as professionals, but some jobs just cannot be done part-time and these full-time workers should have this fact acknowledged in improved pay and acknowledgement of duties commensarate with the role which are undertaken outside of the already hectic full-time working week. hint hint.

    The legislation will cover reverse-postivie-discrimination...so a headteacher in a primary picking a male candidate over an equally qualfied female candidate to address any gender imbalance for instance.

    There's really nothing to worry about with this legislation...the mail and express have already seized on it as emanciating the white-working class male...but in practice the legislation will do nothing of the sort. I'm sad that we need legislation such as this, and i truly belive in our industry we don't need it, but it's something that has to be done overall.
    Last edited by torledo; 26th June 2008 at 01:32 PM.

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    I'll be interested to see the legislation on reverse-postivie-discrimination, this quote makes her intentions unclear though i'm sure that probably down to poor reporting.

    "We've got a new post coming up, we've got equally qualified men and women going for it, we are going to pick the woman because we want to have a more balanced top team."
    I'm still not a fan of everyone having to reveal their salary 'but' there could be a system where jobs are compared and any massive salary difference for similar roles are flagged and queried. These problems could then be addresses during company audits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davyboi View Post
    hmm so does that mean insurance companies wont be allowed to charge hundreds of pounds extra because a driver is only 19?
    No - Harriet Harman talked about insurance this morning. Basically, if a company can show that there is increased risk for a particular group of people then they can charge on that basis. Young drivers statistically have more accidents than older drivers (and the accidents are more expensive) so will continue to pay more for insurance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechMonkey View Post
    This is the problem, when they want equality they mean their version of equality which means picking the people they want you to hire. Was reading about the police entrance requirements and found out we are one of the few countries who don't require a proper fitness test to enter. Apparently it was scrapped as it reduced the numbers they could choose from for equality!? Go figure


    Posted via Mobile DeviceThe idea behind thi is that most people that pass the basic stage of selection can be trained up to a decent standard of fitness. Fitness has gone from police selection due to the growing lack of 'running criminals down' since they are in cars rather than being on foot, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechMonkey View Post
    we are one of the few countries who don't require a proper fitness test to enter.

    who needs a fitness test to sit at the side of the road with a speed camera?


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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    BBC NEWS | Politics | Harman pushes discrimination plan



    Can't this work both ways?




    Surely that must work the same in reverse. I know people who work in HR and say allot of HR teams are all female, they can't just hire a male to balance the team due to discrimination issues.


    This is just common sence in my oppinion, if a company has a good case for wanting a male or female then they should be able to do it. Not quite sure why this law has to be slanted in favour of women, what's needed is a bigger push for equality.


    What you all think?
    It could work in reverse. On the news this morning the example given was where Male primary school teachers will be hired over Female primary school teachers.

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