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General Chat Thread, David Davis 'is to resign as MP' in General; Very interesting BBC NEWS | Politics | David Davis 'is to resign as MP'...
  1. #1
    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    David Davis 'is to resign as MP'


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    speckytecky (12th June 2008)

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    somabc's Avatar
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    Yet another cynical stunt by the Tory Party. Are they going to go round trying to drum up more by-elections now?

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    Diello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    Yet another cynical stunt by the Tory Party. Are they going to go round trying to drum up more by-elections now?
    Far less cynical than Labour!

    The real problem is that all the mainstream parties are moving more to the centre ground. Davis doing this because he's against keeping suspected terrorists locked up for longer? That's very much a liberal/left-wing move. With the Tory's moving more to the centre ground, and people becoming more disillusioned over immigration etc., it leaves the country without a right-of-centre voice. Then people wonder why the BNP is getting more support?

    This country needs a viable right-wing opposition before we get run any more into the ground!

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    mattx's Avatar
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    This country needs a viable right-wing opposition before we get run any more into the ground!
    You need a good opposition for a democracy, not necessarily right wing or left wing - just a good one !! [ Which both the Tories and Lib Dems arn't ]

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    Diello's Avatar
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    Indeed - Just the nature of politics generally means you need a party on each side of the spectrum.

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    somabc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diello View Post
    Indeed - Just the nature of politics generally means you need a party on each side of the spectrum.
    You mean like the Democrat (Right) & Republican (Right-er) Parties?

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    somabc's Avatar
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    Labour should not put up a candidate, then they can show the whole thing is a pointless charade. If the tories and lib-dems are not putting one up then why should they bother?

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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    Labour should not put up a candidate, then they can show the whole thing is a pointless charade. If the tories and lib-dems are not putting one up then why should they bother?
    Eh? The Tories are putting one up - David Davies. Its kinda the point that it will look like a public vote on 42 days.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC News wesbite

    Shadow home secretary David Davis has resigned as an MP.

    He is to force a by-election in his Haltemprice and Howden constituency which he will fight on the issue of the new 42-day terror detention limit.
    I for one would like to believe that David Davies is doing this as a matter of principle. I think he is.
    Last edited by sparkeh; 12th June 2008 at 04:14 PM.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    Labour should not put up a candidate, then they can show the whole thing is a pointless charade. If the tories and lib-dems are not putting one up then why should they bother?
    that's the worst possible thing labour could do....if they do not contest the seat it will be spun against them to make it look as if they care little for campaigning on the issue of civil liberties and protecting the nation against the threat of terror.

    On the whole the feedback has been a positive one in favour of Davis stand....it's a personal one made on the back of his strong conviction that labour coerced rebel mp's into voting in favour...as it was they relied on the DUP to get them home.

    i would say the charade has been the labour govt. we've had for the last 10 years who have swept every debatable issue under the carpet....from tuition fees to iraq and now to id cards and 42 days.

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    somabc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Eh? The Tories are putting one up - David Davies. Its kinda the point that it will look like a public vote on 42 days.
    The Tories are not putting a candidate up. Davis is standing as an independent. If he was standing for the tories it would be an even bigger waste of time as the sitting MP he has no need to resign and seek re-election. As for it being a referendum on the issue of 42 days well only the people of Haltemprice and Howden will be able to vote on the issue, hardly a public referendum is it?

    General Election 2005: Haltemprice and Howden
    Conservative David Davis 22,792 Votes 47.5% of the vote +4.3% swing
    Labour Edward Hart 6,104 Votes 12.7% of the vote –3.0% swing

    Turnout 48,029 Votes 70.1% of electorate +4.3% increase on 2001 election

    BBC NEWS | Politics | David Davis resigns from Commons

    Shadow attorney general Dominic Grieve, who will take over as shadow home secretary, rubbished reports the Tory leadership was split on the issue and said a future Conservative government would repeal it.

    He said he would be campaigning for Mr Davis in the by-election - but added it would be Mr Davis' own personal campaign and he would receive no financial support from Tory HQ.
    Last edited by somabc; 12th June 2008 at 04:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    that's the worst possible thing labour could do....if they do not contest the seat it will be spun against them to make it look as if they care little for campaigning on the issue of civil liberties and protecting the nation against the threat of terror.

    On the whole the feedback has been a positive one in favour of Davis stand....it's a personal one made on the back of his strong conviction that labour coerced rebel mp's into voting in favour...as it was they relied on the DUP to get them home.

    i would say the charade has been the labour govt. we've had for the last 10 years who have swept every debatable issue under the carpet....from tuition fees to iraq and now to id cards and 42 days.
    This has nothing to do with the 42 day issue! It is merely a publicity stunt. And what is wrong with the DUP voting with the government? The whole issue should have been a vote of conscience with no Whip. If the DUP want to vote with government well they are elected MPs so why shouldn't they?

    It will work like this -

    Davis stands as independent, Labour fields candidate and we spent weeks in the newspapers discussing the (single) issue, making Labour look bad.

    Davis wins election (for his own safe tory seat remember) rejoins conservative party after a suitable period of time (ie when the press stops paying attention) This will not affect the bill passed last night. If the conservative party wants to stop it being passed they should be using the House of Lords, not throwing their dummy out the pram in a massive waste of taxpayers money. The whole point of the House of Lords is to provide oversight when the commons decides to pass daft laws such as this one.
    Last edited by somabc; 12th June 2008 at 04:38 PM.

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    We only need to look at this current Gov to see "a massive waste of taxpayers money".

    No one complained when Martin Bell did it.

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    penfold_99 (12th June 2008)

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    somabc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diello View Post
    We only need to look at this current Gov to see "a massive waste of taxpayers money".
    Citing other examples of wasting money does not make this 'exercise' any less of a waste of money. How much do you think it costs taxpayers to run an election?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diello View Post
    No one complained when Martin Bell did it.
    Completely different! Martin Bell was not an MP when he decided to run as an independent. He was a prominent journalist who decided to take a stand against sleaze by running against Neil Hamilton in Tatton.

    The only way that comparison would hold up would be if you had say Shami Chakrabarti (Director of Liberty) run against Gordon Brown in the next election to highlight the violations of Human Rights by this Government.
    Last edited by somabc; 12th June 2008 at 04:53 PM.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post

    It will work like this -

    Davis stands as independent, Labour fields candidate and we spent weeks in the newspapers discussing the (single) issue, making Labour look bad.
    And what's wrong with that, the govt. doesn't exactly need any help in shooting itself in the foot and looking bad...

    as for the waste of money charge, we've had a decade of incomprehensible waste on a national scale. I hardly think New Labour apologists should be using the 'taxpayers money' charge against a campaign, in the case of David Davis' own camapaing, that will be privately funded.

    I haven't checked the news for an hour so i was unaware that he was standing as an independent, but it makes sense if it's an issue of personal conviction.

    The whole point about the vote was that it wasn't a vote of consience....labour whips were doing there upmost to ensure there were as few rebel mp's as possible, ministers themselves effectively tried to bribe their way out of an embarrassment with so-called 'concessions'.

    Civil liberties is an issue at the next election, but pursuing an agenda that appears to be tough on terrorism through policies that have questionable impact on reducing the threat of a terrorist atrocity is not the way to go about getting votes.....it's almost as if the broon govt. is using the bush technique of 'well, we're crap in every other aspect of domestic and foreign policy, let's scare people witless and give the illusion of being tough on terror through measures that are either unnecessary'

    Labours focus on the 42 days is straight out of the 'How to lose friends and not influence people' book (Authors D. Rumsfeld, G.W Bush, T. Blair).......

    ...it's the clearest sign yet of a govt. that knows the economy isn't going to improve to dig them out of the financial hole they've dug themselves into, they're looking in totally the wrong areas for ways to reverse their fortunes.

    how bizarre that they seem to be so proactive with this whereas on the real issues that concern people such as the economy they seem to have very little to say other than the mantra of 'global conditions'.

    Good luck to davis, let's hope the media give the campaign the attention it deserves.

    btw i've not read anything about David davis standing as an independent, somabc, i think he'll stand as a tory.
    Last edited by torledo; 12th June 2008 at 05:25 PM.

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    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    This has nothing to do with the 42 day issue! It is merely a publicity stunt.
    I watched the live speech on TV outside the commons, they wouldn't let him address the house as he resigned. It looked genuine i'm not his biggest fan but i think he really feels about this issue so i think and hope you're wrong.

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