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General Chat Thread, David Davis 'is to resign as MP' in General; Originally Posted by somabc And what is wrong with the DUP voting with the government? The whole issue should have ...
  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    And what is wrong with the DUP voting with the government? The whole issue should have been a vote of conscience with no Whip. If the DUP want to vote with government well they are elected MPs so why shouldn't they?
    Agreed. I find it very frustrating that we now have politics at the level where anyone who has a view is called a "rebel" if that view doesn't match that of the party leaders.

    Of course you expect MPs to be in general agreement with the party leaders - why join the party if that's not the case - but surely we want politicians who can think for themselves, can argue a case and make up their minds. If that's not allowed to happen we might as well not bother with parliament. You have elections every 5 years and whoever wins just does what they please for the next 5 years.

    The same is true with all the talk of "indecisiveness" and "U Turns" - surely it's better that a politician listens to what people are saying, accepts that their first thought was wrong and changes things. I am absolutely certain that many of my "first thoughts" are wrong; I listen to other people and I then do things differently as a result of listening, consultation etc. Why is it seen as weak when politicians do the same?

  2. #17
    somabc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    btw i've not read anything about David davis standing as an independent, somabc, i think he'll stand as a tory.

    So lets see he was the elected Conservative MP for Haltemprice and Howden and he has resigned to stand as the Conservative MP for Haltemprice and Howden. Is every MP going to do that from now on? Does anyone see a problem with that? Its not how our political system works! Would you resign your job and immediately reapply for it on the same terms? If he does not stand as an independent he is really taking the p***
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...fire'.html
    Last edited by witch; 20th March 2010 at 11:50 PM.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    i think there's a difference between listening and making knee-jerk reactions....the latter is what brown seems to be doing.

    here's an angle on the DUP and the whole question of 42 days as a vote of conscience....in that it wasn't. Labour MP's were rebels because they went against the party whip....this wasn't one of those situations were MP's were allowed a free vote.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/politic...tentiondup.htm

  4. #19
    somabc's Avatar
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    I think we should have a rule such that, if an MP resigns their seat then they cannot run for that seat again.

  5. #20

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    We only need to look at this current Gov to see "a massive waste of taxpayers money".
    Why just this gov ? The Tories did the same back when they were in power. After they sold the family silver [ British industries ] they had to borrow more which caused massive un-employment and boom and bust economics.
    This gov, past and future ones will all do the same as I'm afriad the pratts we end up voting in to run this county are nothing more than failed manager types who have lost touch with the common person. And at the end of they day its the 'common person' who keep this country going !!
    MPs are just talk, talk and talk and NO action. [ Apart from a VERY select view ]

  6. #21

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    And what is wrong with the DUP voting with the government?
    Just a reminder to all that when Major was PM - [ Remember him, the former Chancellor of the Exchequer who advised Maggie to enter the ERM which caused black Wednesday on the 16th September 1992 - so when you harp on about current gov wasting tax payers money - Major managed to waste 3.5 BILLION - yep you heard correct, 3.5 BILLION in ONE day !! ]
    The Ulster Unionists voted with the Tories as Major at one stage had a majoity of 1.

  7. #22

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    I think we should have a rule such that, if an MP resigns their seat then they cannot run for that seat again.
    I think we should have a rule that NO party is allowed more than 2 terms in office.

    And as for the 42 day law, I seriously think that many MPs have not heard of the Charter of Liberties or the Magna Carta. Quite disturbing.

    And whilst I am on my MP bashing hour, can someone tell me why MPs want us to have ID cards etc, and also be able to hold people without charge for 42 days [ which will NEVER get through the house of Lords ] but they don't want the general public - [ the likes of you and me who vote for them & pay for them ] to look at their general expenses ? They did in fact try to pass a law exempting themselves from the freedom of information act.
    Again, is it me or is that quite disturbing ?
    Last edited by mattx; 12th June 2008 at 11:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattx View Post
    I seriously think that many MPs have not heard of the Charter of Liberties or the Magna Carta. Quite disturbing.
    All written before modern day terrorism. Desperate time, desperate measures, and all that. The problem is, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they didn't make harsh measures, and that resulted in another attack, they'd be accused of being soft and not wanting to rock the civil liberties brigade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diello View Post
    All written before modern day terrorism. Desperate time, desperate measures, and all that. The problem is, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they didn't make harsh measures, and that resulted in another attack, they'd be accused of being soft and not wanting to rock the civil liberties brigade.
    Modern day terrorism is just a propaganda weapon all govs use to get an element of control over the people of a country.
    All modern day Govs hype terror for fun, profit - and power.
    Money, power and the combined power of mega corporations [ energy, military industry and contractors, pharmacuticals, etc ] and the politicians owned by them to literally control public perception through the media which it also owns is allowing our constitution, our founding principles, and possibly our very futures to be destroyed.

  10. #25
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    I think we should have a rule that NO party is allowed more than 2 terms in office.
    No I think that’s silly look at America, there has been many cases where they have wanted the current administration to carry on but they can't. If the public want the current government to stay then they should be allowed to.



    Major managed to waste 3.5 BILLION - yep you heard correct, 3.5 BILLION in ONE day !!
    Pocket change compared to the current war 'effort', he tried to accelerate the end game of getting Britain into Europe but it didn't work out. It could of gone the other way and he would of been revered (possibly not for the right reason).


    As for the 42 day bit, as far as i've read MI5 say they haven't asked for this so why are the government pushing so hard?

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    The Tories are not putting a candidate up. Davis is standing as an independent.
    Sorry but you are completely wrong. He is standing as a Tory candidate.

    Read the last question here

  12. #27

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    Pocket change compared to the current war 'effort', he tried to accelerate the end game of getting Britain into Europe but it didn't work out.
    And that makes it ok does it ?
    Not only was 4.5 Billion lost - many people lost their houses too. It's a classic case of people making decisions on matters in which they have NO knowledge about.

  13. #28

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    Can I ask, and I'm not thinking of anyone in particular here, "How many of the above posters actually remember what life was like under the Tories?"

    Personally, I loath the way we run this country at quite a fundamental level. I concede that we need robust examination of what the gov. of the day are doing, and detailed examination of any legislation proposed. However, when it comes to voting, I feel it should all be down to individual conscience. I vote for an individual, who should not be forced to vote for legislation he/she feels to be repugnant.

  14. #29

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    Can I ask, and I'm not thinking of anyone in particular here, "How many of the above posters actually remember what life was like under the Tories?"
    I don't think many of them are old enough to remember Andrew. Problem I have, is that I do !!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew_C View Post
    Can I ask, and I'm not thinking of anyone in particular here, "How many of the above posters actually remember what life was like under the Tories?"
    what i DO remeber is in the run up to the 92 election and indeed the 87 election for that matter, the stick used to beat the labour party by the tories was ....'remember what it was like when labour were last in power'... in 92 it mattered not that the winter of discontent, strike action, power cuts had infact happened some 14 years earlier the recollection of the bad periods during the last labour administratoin were too much to bear for some people.

    As a result a deeply unpopular tory govt. got in by the skin of it's teeth due to the 'better the devil you know' thinking of the electorate.

    Fast forward to 1994 and it took a PR exercise for labour to dispel the stigma of economic incompetence (on the surface atleast). By the time of the next election black wednesday will also be an event that happened some 17 years previous !!!, voting for what life was previously like is not a justification. Just as labour were a different party in 92 to the one in the early 70's, the tories can justifiably argue they are not the same party....under Ken Clarke the stewardship of the economy in the last years of the tory govt. was actually very sound. He passed on a very healthy economy to Brown, unfortunately that is all too easily forgotten by those who prefer to remeber black wednesday and those who like to think the 'nice decade' was architectured entirely by the decisions of gordon brown.

    I seriously think that people should stop drinking from the labour kool-aid. I belive if they get into power next year or whenever the election is it'll be like 92 all over again, within a few years they'll have past being fedup they'll thoroughly detest the sight of neu labour and the tories will win a landslide in 2014 with boris at the helm. Labour scraping it at the next election is just delaying the inevitable implosion later on down the line.

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