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General Chat Thread, The credit crunch in General; I think that 20K 25 years ago gybe7 Well it was actually 22 years ago...It wasnt for a council house, ...
  1. #61

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    I think that 20K 25 years ago gybe7
    Well it was actually 22 years ago...It wasnt for a council house, it was for the only broken down dump we could afford - the council house was too dear!! - the choice was continue paying rent to the council or buy a dump then one day I'd at least own something.

    If it was 20k now...I'd just write a cheque

    And yes house prices are stupidly high but then again compared to 22 years ago wages are also stupidly high where everything else has become cheaper (now going up I'll admit)

    22 years ago it took everything I could raise and a shit load of worry to buy a 2 bedroom dump of a house so why should it be any different today Its only the numbers that have changed...at the end of the week youll have nothing left same as I did, which in my opinion is only fair....why should I have had it tougher than those starting out today

  2. #62
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EeEk View Post

    And yes house prices are stupidly high but then again compared to 22 years ago wages are also stupidly high where everything else has become cheaper (now going up I'll admit)
    I was commenting as much to the missus (22, bless) last night....heh..

  3. #63
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EeEk View Post
    Well there you have it...I'm upper-middle or upper class

    Which must be right as the credit crunch doesn't effect me I have no debt/mortgage/credit everything I own is paid for including my house.

    My opinion...the people today just starting out are no worse off than I was when I started out.

    Me, wife, baby lived with my parents in 1 room until we got a council house.
    I worked 6 days a week, wife worked 4 hours each night as a cleaner ( no child care vouchers in them days all we got was free cheese and butter from the EU mountains).

    Still needed 3x my wage + 1x wifeís wage + 10% deposit to get a £20000 mortgage to buy a basic 2 bed terrace. Every penny we had went on "living" extras like a new TV etc were bought with money made doing "homers" at night - used to be a mechanic so always a pound to made at night .

    Now 25 years on...everythingís paid. I just packed this job in to go back to being a mechanic @£21k a 7k increase. Wifeís worked herself in to a nice $23k council job. Kids are up and one has left home and we have money to burn...even after just spending £4500 cash on a new toy - Honda VFR VTEC

    Donít you for one moment think it wasnít hard getting this far, struggling to find £1 to buy a leccy card, living on turkey twizlers and beans, first holiday we had was when the baby (mentioned above) was 15. ....you people today donít know what tough is!!! If you cant manage on one wage then quit your boohooing and get 2 jobs. Live on food from farmfoods/iceland, walk, no holidays, no mobile, in fact no phone at all, no sky tv, no nights out, use second hand shops for clothes/kids toys etc etc

    Iím afraid any one caught by the credit crunch gets no sympathy from me. You should have seen it coming, I did!!
    EeEk, first of all i don't mind borrowing four, five times my income, or indeed getting a part-time job to boost income....i'm afraid i don't have the skills to do cash-in-hand work, but i could still boost my income certainely. And i've already got a 15% deposit , the point is, even that isn't enough to afford property today - to get a realistic multiple of x6, x7 it's unlikely a bank would go near you, you'd have to go to a mortgage broker who is going to charge an arm and a leg, not to mention the arrangement fee from the bank which can run into several thousand. Arrangement fees and stamp duty didn't apply in your case.

    And btw EeeK i've never been abroad on 'holiday', i don't drive at the moment, i don't eat out or go for nights out, i don't have satelite tv, i rarely buy clothes for myself, most of my sons toys are charity shop or gifts from relatives, we don't eat meat that often and yes we shop at iceland or buy own-brand to keep costs down.

    This whole thread, thanks to chrbb and witch, has descended into a 'which era had it toughest' argument when the point i was making is that some people, yes some homeoweners, aren't feeling the credit crunch today as much as young people are who are looking to get ont he property ladder....absolutely nothing whatsover to do with what things were like 25 years ago. I'm talking about today, and it's not whingeing to say that competition for homes coupled with rising prices has made it difficult for ftb's....

    buying practically everything these days is a race to beat other people to it...my dad didn't have that problem when he bought his first house for 20-odd thousand 25 years ago....you dont' have to give me the sob story - i saw it first hand, with my dad working 18 hour days, single income, no mod cons....despite all of this, people who bought all those years ago and who've since invested inproperties as landlords KNOW full well that the market is overvalued....it's not a case of earning more to buy expensive property - it's about buying in the right area at the right price, and over the last couple of years that has been increasingly difficult thing to do....i've seen one house in my area that was what i would call good value, and belive me it wasn't cheap...at 150k with modernisaton to be done it would have been perfect for us. I would had to have borrowed at over five times household income and i was prepared to do that - but i got beaten to the punch. Nothing similar has come up for grabs since then. What do you want me to do ? jump in and pay 180k for a house that's going to be worth 160k if the sellers are lucky in 12 months or wait to buy at a reasonable price....i don't give a toss about how much the property will be worth in five years, net gain on property over the ownserhip life is typically 0 when all things are taken into account, i just don't want to buy at the most inopprtune moment imaginable.

    ftb's want no favours, we're content to be lumbered with a 25-year mortgage, but realistic pricing hasn't been seen in this country for several years. Former head of the federal reseve, alan greenspan, i think said in his autobiogrphy that the uk housing market was 20% overvalued. You'd have to be an idiot to lumber yourself with a property that is so overvalued when you are starting out.

  4. #64
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EeEk View Post
    ....why should I have had it tougher than those starting out today
    that line really sums up the overwhelming problem with your generation, if i didn't know full well my father doesn't know a computer from his left buttock i'd say it was he who typed that line...

    the hyprocrisy of it is staggering, while you lot were sporting kevin keegan perms, did you think about the sacrifices made by previous generations so that you didn't have to put up with quite the same sh*t that they did. Instead you seem to feel the vicious cycle of your era must be repeated for subsequent generations, we will continue to have boom and bust economics in this country because people like yourself want it that way with this kind of attitude.

  5. #65
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    ......if i didn't know full well my father doesn't know a computer from his left buttock ........
    Oh, now that's a concise summary that has got to go into the all time classic "IT Skills Assessment" handbook..

  6. #66

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    Sorry, I've tried to resist but.........

    FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
    Aye, very passable, that, very passable bit of risotto.
    SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
    Nothing like a good glass of Ch‚teau de Chasselas, eh, Josiah?
    THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
    You're right there, Obadiah.
    FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
    Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Ch‚teau de Chasselas, eh?
    FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
    In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.
    SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
    A cup o' cold tea.
    FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
    Without milk or sugar.
    THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
    Or tea.
    FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
    In a cracked cup, an' all.
    FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
    Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
    SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
    The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
    THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
    But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
    FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
    Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness, son".
    FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
    Aye, 'e was right.
    FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
    Aye, 'e was.
    FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
    I was happier then and I had nothin'. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof.
    SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
    House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.
    THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
    Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!
    FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
    Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.
    FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
    Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.
    SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
    We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake.
    THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
    You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road.
    FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
    Cardboard box?
    THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
    Aye.
    FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
    You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
    SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
    Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
    THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
    Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.
    FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
    Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
    FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
    And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
    ALL:
    They won't!

  7. #67
    theeldergeek
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    Quote Originally Posted by FN-Greatermanchester View Post
    I was having a conversation with a teacher today, we got onto the subject of money. This is what happened:

    Me: so how has the credit crunch affected you?
    Teacher: It hasnít I have weetabix for breakfast
    Me: Oh **Walks off**

    Are these people for real?
    Methinks you is having a bad day....

  8. #68

    witch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post

    This whole thread, thanks to chrbb and witch, has descended into a 'which era had it toughest' argument when the point i was making is that some people, yes some homeoweners, aren't feeling the credit crunch today as much as young people are who are looking to get ont he property ladder....absolutely nothing whatsover to do with what things were like 25 years ago. I'm talking about today, and it's not whingeing to say that competition for homes coupled with rising prices has made it difficult for ftb's....
    Hey, that's not fair! Actually you started the argument by making unfair comments about those you perceive to be middle class. All we were trying to point out is that, house prices aside, we did not start out with the things we have now, and we had to work very hard for them.
    We NEVER suggested that we had it tougher than you, it was just that your comments implied that we were smug and had got it all easily.
    I stated that house prices are a real problem, and I will say again that although it was tough to buy some years ago, we could do it if we really tried, which is much harder today.
    BUT, how is it that the people who own a house (with a mortgage, as previously stated) are insulated from the credit crunch? I know that mortgages may be a bit more difficult to come by, but surely falling house prices/repossessions etc can only be good for someone in your position?

  9. Thanks to witch from:

    chrbb (11th June 2008)

  10. #69
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    the hyprocrisy of it is staggering, while you lot were sporting kevin keegan perms, did you think about the sacrifices made by previous generations so that you didn't have to put up with quite the same sh*t that they did. Instead you seem to feel the vicious cycle of your era must be repeated for subsequent generations, we will continue to have boom and bust economics in this country because people like yourself want it that way with this kind of attitude.
    Presumably you've said all this to your Dad, aka the previous generation to you, who by working a 18 hour day made sacrifices to give you a home?

    Have you thought about going into politics and actually trying to do something about the economy or do you just prefer to blame others?

    In fact it would probably be an idea for this thread to be locked by the moderators, your posts are becoming increasingly insulting and personal.
    Last edited by chrbb; 11th June 2008 at 11:30 PM.

  11. #70

    FN-GM's Avatar
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    Ok I think this thread has run its course. Please can we end this matter and not continue? I think we are all mature enough to move on.

  12. Thanks to FN-GM from:

    chrbb (11th June 2008)

  13. #71
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrbb View Post
    Presumably you've said all this to your Dad, aka the previous generation to you, who by working a 18 hour day made sacrifices to give you a home?

    Have you thought about going into politics and actually trying to do something about the economy or do you just prefer to blame others?

    In fact it would probably be an idea for this thread to be locked by the moderators, your posts are becoming increasingly insulting and personal.
    i don't disagree that the thread should be locked, although isn't it interesting how you point out it should be locked AFTER you try and sneak the last word in.....

    what i find disconcerting is you do the whole smiley face thing in one paragraph and then try and stick the dagger in the next. Talk about iron fist velvet glove, or whatever the term is. Think it's you who should be going into politics, you'd fit right in as a brown babe.....that's the type of trick they pull on a daily basis.

    to repsond re the 'previos generation' comment. I'm beginning to think my father made those sacrifices for himself, so that he could get on and accumilate. As i said, if the actions of the generation previous to us was about giving the next generation the best possible start in adult life then i don't think we would have the current housing crisis aswell as the issue of social mobility.
    Last edited by torledo; 12th June 2008 at 06:42 AM.

  14. #72
    chrbb's Avatar
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    Actually the smiley face thing is to lighten the subject slightly!

    I'm beginning to think my father made those sacrifices for himself, so that he could get on and accumilate. As i said, if the actions of the generation previous to us was about giving the next generation the best possible start in adult life then i don't think we would have the current housing crisis aswell as the issue of social mobility.
    My and my husband's sacrifices were made to feed, clothe and house our children, not to accumalte wealth for ourselves. Our savings, meagre as they are, are destined to help them buy their first properties. Everything we have, we have as a family.

    There no smiley faces!

  15. #73
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    eee...when I were a lad, down t'pit we'd have banged your heads together and said "play nice, kiddies"...

  16. #74
    somabc's Avatar
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    Hesiod quotes

    I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint.

    ~700 BC

  17. #75
    Sirbendy's Avatar
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    hah...so it's not just the "kids of today" then...impressive!

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