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General Chat Thread, Am i being underpaid??? in General; Uh its a bit complicated. Basically tuesday to friday (except wednesday AM 8 - 12) all the schools get half ...
  1. #46
    Bluetooth's Avatar
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    Uh its a bit complicated.

    Basically tuesday to friday (except wednesday AM 8 - 12) all the schools get half a day each.

    Monday is an On Call day for me to work around my schools and do the highest priority jobs etc

    wednesday morning set aside again to catch up on anything missed + meetings with senior management at whatever schools.

    I usually tend to do teaching support on a thursday morning as long as i have nothing to do at that school but recently things have been picking up with quotes and jobs etc so i havent done much teaching and also theres been no kids to teach in the ICT room.

    I normally help them out with Dazzle and thats about it, teaching them keyboard and mouse control etc.

  2. #47
    Grommit's Avatar
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    A network manager should be getting £38k +

    Junior/ trainee Tech £15k- £18k
    Middle Tech £18k - £20k
    Tech £20 - £24k
    Network Manager £28k+

    Thats how it works here

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    A network manager should be getting £38k +

    Junior/ trainee Tech £15k- £18k
    Middle Tech £18k - £20k
    Tech £20 - £24k
    Network Manager £28k+

    Thats how it works here
    Bloody hell... which part of the country do you work?

    Pay is a lot lower than what you are quoting up north.

    Network manager is on about £25.

  4. #49
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timbo343 View Post
    Bloody hell... which part of the country do you work?

    Pay is a lot lower than what you are quoting up north.

    Network manager is on about £25.
    yeah you' right, that is considerably lower. not worth getting out of bed for tbh

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    A network manager should be getting £38k +

    Junior/ trainee Tech £15k- £18k
    Middle Tech £18k - £20k
    Tech £20 - £24k
    Network Manager £28k+

    Thats how it works here
    Now I see why you don't see £14 a month as a lot...

    The top of the scale for a NM in Somerset is 18.5k!

  6. #51
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    The top of the scale for a NM in Somerset is 18.5k!
    That really annoys me, why schools expect to hire 'professionals' for less than they would pay an NQT. It's an insult to even advertise for such a position for less that £22k.

  7. #52
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    That really annoys me, why schools expect to hire 'professionals' for less than they would pay an NQT. It's an insult to even advertise for such a position for less that £22k.
    IT pay in general is extremely variable....universities aren't great when it comes to paying experienced IT pros.

    And there are some roles even in the private sector which ask a lot from candidates including considerable experience and wide breadth of skills that don't pay particularly well....and that's not taking into account the often large number of applicants and arduous interview processes. Makes you wonder sometimes why we bother with being allround sysadmins.

    Especially when non-technical managers seem to earn a lot for doing very little graft - having lots of tea breaks, replying to emails and talking a lot.

  8. #53

    john's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit View Post
    A network manager should be getting £38k +

    Junior/ trainee Tech £15k- £18k
    Middle Tech £18k - £20k
    Tech £20 - £24k
    Network Manager £28k+

    Thats how it works here
    As has been said I wish it was that up north!!

    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post
    IT pay in general is extremely variable....universities aren't great when it comes to paying experienced IT pros.

    And there are some roles even in the private sector which ask a lot from candidates including considerable experience and wide breadth of skills that don't pay particularly well....and that's not taking into account the often large number of applicants and arduous interview processes. Makes you wonder sometimes why we bother with being allround sysadmins.

    Especially when non-technical managers seem to earn a lot for doing very little graft - having lots of tea breaks, replying to emails and talking a lot.
    I 110% agree with you on that one.

    As for saturated, depends if your meaning good techs then no I wouldn't think so, but cowboys and people who shouldn't be doing the job yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    Does anyone think company's and schools can pay what ever the hell they like because the IT industry is saturated?
    yup, also because there are a lot of it pro's out there who dabble, people who dont really know what they're doing but in the eyes of the employeer are sufficent. In schools cases this means that they dont have to pay a decent amount for a decent person.

    the fact that nm's earn less than nqt's is disqusting. How can nm's do there job knowing the school think less of them than the bottom of the pile teachers. It's no wonder everyone has at least several teachers who think the nm is there to do exactly what the teacher wants when they want it without question.

  10. #55
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    IT is always viewed as non profit making so it's always first for the chop and always under review i.e can we cut back or pay less. There is also the image of "IT that's where the money is" so allot of people try to break into the industry and you get allot of people for each job. Companies then get the impression that you're being greedy when there are people out there who will do it for less, they quite often learn the hard way when they hire the wrong person.


    It's no wonder everyone has at least several teachers who think the nm is there to do exactly what the teacher wants when they want it without question
    That's why you need to let them know that you don't work for them and make sure the first time they pop in and ask you to scan something or perform some menial task they can go jump. (That is if you are a NM not a tec)
    Last edited by cookie_monster; 26th April 2008 at 08:21 PM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    Does anyone think company's and schools can pay what ever the hell they like because the IT industry is saturated?
    I think that's true in certain areas. Proliferation of MCSE's CCNA's etc....
    like john said, doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're doing. For instance in a lot of cases are paper certs or have experience of keeping things ticking over rather than being in major project work.

    Back in the late 90's getting into IT was the thing to do.....when i was doing many of the IT courses at a local college back in 1998 there were all sorts on the course with me. I recall a roofer being on the course. Today it's the other way around....IT people going on roofing courses.

    It's no longer the thing to do as a career change, but we are left with the result of a plethora of IT and media degrees, college courses and the demand for NT and win2k people to manage these networks in the early noughties. As you said saturation. Coupled with that there is also the scarcity of good jobs outside of london and the south-east.

    There are lucrative areas and specialisms....but it's a case of if you go down that route you're sort of putting all you're eggs in one basket. I'd imagine it also gets kinda boring.....but who cares when you're earning that much. It's more and more the case that you've got to be prepared to travel

    I sometimes wonder if the AS400 was allowed to rule the business world as was the outlook in the 80's we'd have this glut of client server IT pro's. Becuase the thing about AS400 was that it didn't require the manpower of a wintel environment. We'd still have ccna's though. Life without switched ethernet is not worth thinking about.

  12. #57
    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookie_monster View Post
    IT is always viewed as non profit making so it's always first for the chop and always under review i.e can we cut back or pay less. There is also the image of "IT that's where the money is" so allot of people try to break into the industry and you get allot of people for each job. Companies then get the impression that you're being greedy when there are people out there who will do it for less, they quite often learn the hard way when they hire the wrong person.




    That's why you need to let them know that you don't work for them and make sure the first time they pop in and ask you to scan something or perform some menial task they can go jump. (That is if you are a NM not a tec)

    I think the reason why companies and schools (especially schools) are hiring the wrong people is that those make the hiring decisions don't understand the job.

    If a NM or IT person is involved in the process and if their recommendations are sought then you reduce the risk of hiring the wrong candidate. Even then it's not a guarantee....there are people in industry applying for jobs in schools who appear to tick the correct boxes but are not capable of dealing with the demands of providing an IT service in a school environment.

    Hiring for a relatively lowly paid position is always going to be a bit hit and miss. Also, even in well paid postitions people who aren't up to the job have a unique ability to talk themselves into it. Particularly if they have an impressive looking cv and say the things people who can't cut through the bs want to hear.

    I once applied for a job at a local college....the IT manager explained what the scope of the IT support team was. Help with MS Office or anytthing not related to delivering the IT service was not part of any team members duties.

    scanning of documents should not be the duty of any IT technician network manager or lowly it tech.

    The only thing of that nature that i do is printing of A1 documents on our hp printer. I only do that becaus no-one else knows how to do it....and they're very occasional requests. Eventually i'll produce a how-to if it ever gets too much. Other than that, i'm an IT support professional not a graphic designer or mail merge expert. I try and create very clearly defined boundaries. After all there is life after working in education, and i'm hoping my next move won't involve me showing idiot IT users how to turn off that annoying dog in Word 2002.

  13. #58
    cookie_monster's Avatar
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    No i don't think IT is 'easy' to pick up but too many people who don't know the job think that someone who can fix a windows desktop is a computer wizz and at some levels these people will be fine. The problem comes when they start moving into more complicated areas like 'good' network planning, switching, routing, traffic analysis to help you plan network load. Also non techincal aspects like usage policies, tendering and managing contractors or breaking down large technical solutions to make sure you or your school/company don't make the wrong decisions.

    This is where your roofer come IT bod will fall down. Unfortunatly any money making industry eventually attracts bandits after a while. Heck i have friends who rake it in plastering peoples walls and i' sure with a bit of training i could be a bandit in their field and turn up, charge a half the going rate and do half the job. (and probably make more money :-))

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    Yes but i think that will change in the long term but IT pay should level out unfortunately i think the number of available jobs in IT will steadily fall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
    like plumbers and electricians
    being a proper electrician or plumber requires having a time-served element. Just becuase someones rewired their mates two bed house, or done a intensive plumbing course doesn't mean they're equipped to operate in that field.

    Similarly IT needs a time-served element in most cases. You can't suddenly turn up doing network analysis after buying a couple of books and downloading a copy of ethereal....you need that time served element where you get first-hand experience of a live network and the issues different networks throw up, aswell as become familiar with the proper tools in a production environment.

    In IT there's no such thing as a a required qualification....anyone can setup and administer a server 2003 domain. And you can in theory download a copy of vmware and the eval versions of the software and tools and go through the step-by-steps to accomploish these tasks.

    Bob's you're uncle....that was a piece of pi$$, now i can take my 'skills' into the real world and make some money.

    Trouble is where's you're experience of setbacks and unusual behavious on live networks.....or you're experience of describing problems on forums.....and as cookie has said you're experience in getting quotes and procuring IT equipment. That's why being a sysadmin is a job you can't do from you're bedroom or from a long distance training course.

    programmer or developer, yeah you can go solo on that, but sysadmin...no chance.

    It is totally different from the 'trades'....things haven't moved on a great deal in the areas of plumbing or electrics in the last 20 years. Whereas, aside from the odd AS/400 humming away in the corner of a datacentre the IT infrastructures are unrecognisable. In most instances there was nothing 20 years ago.

    You'd have to be a glutton for punishment to want to join the IT bandwgon today as a sysamdin......i would imagine a lot of people who jumped on during the 'hot' period have either jumped off or become disillusioned. As much as i love the variety of the job, i'd love to go through a week without seeing a totally new error message, it's not for everyone, and you sometimes get the feeling you're not in total control of the products youre using. Especially if they're badly written M$ products.

    You know where you are as a roofer....as an ITprofessional yo don't know whether you're coming or going.

    Plus nowadays there's more money in being a roofer than an MCSE.

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