unions/bcs

russdev · 01-02-2006, 01:40 PM

ok as said in another thread...

I am going to start meeting with support staff unions and bcs to try and feedback how these orgs can help you as ict support staff..

So what can these orgs do for you what do you want sorting, what issues do you have...

First one I a meeting with is unison local level at moment but in lue of of her taling it up chain of command etc..

So come on so what woud you want changing, how can they help you, ideas, from simple to complex

Russ

Geoff · 01-02-2006, 01:51 PM

The level of pay in Lancs schools for IT techs are all over the shop. I'm getting paid Grade 4 in the schools I work at yet the technician I work with gets paid on Grade 2 for doing the same job in the same school.

Lancs needs some central rules for pay scales badly.

nawbus · 01-02-2006, 01:52 PM

I think there has to be a total change of direction with the unions. Educational support staff get a bit of a 'raw deal' when it comes to unions as our unions tend to cover many different jobs and sectors - GMB & UNISON come to mind.
Where as the teacher's unions are for teachers only and are therefore very powerful. Each member of a teching union is or was a teacher so they know what they are talking about in relation to their members. Where as you and I are represented by (not meant in a direspectful way) nurses or council employees who don't know much about the educational sector.

Trouble is I can't see a way round this without starting a new union for educaional support staff, and that gets complicated!

GrumbleDook · 01-02-2006, 02:31 PM

We cannot move forward towards reasonable and equal pay until all schools, authorities and govt agencies agree that a standard set of job roles are created.

That will not happen whilst the "outsourcing" bug is going on at both LEA and PFI level.

All we can do is comparisons of jobs between schools and areas. See how your job compares to the Becta Tech Competencies (I know this only skims some bits ... but it is a start) and then ask others to do the same.

mark · 01-02-2006, 02:55 PM

I'm a Unison Steward.

Here in Powys there are moves to get a level playing field for staff accross the LEA to be paid the same rate for the same job. We are to be assessed as part of a county wide Job Evaluation process thats due to end soon.
The Welsh AM for Education Jane Davidson even backs it, but there's serious opposition from the Head Teachers who think they'll never lose this level of control over thier domains.

We shall see.

webman · 01-02-2006, 03:39 PM

It's not just the schools and LEAs that need to standardise their own pay scales, I think the whole country has to conform to one standard, like they do for teachers.

broc · 01-02-2006, 03:53 PM

I think the local government employers will fight tooth & nail to avoid a national agreement. I am not sure the schools would be very happy either, as they might have to pay market rates for the job whereas today they get away with paying as little as possible. I have seen technicians on scale 2-6 and network managers from 5 to PO8. Factor in all of the changes in the pipeline, like the White Paper, workload reform, single status and it is easy to see why nothing will happen quickly.

webman · 01-02-2006, 04:06 PM

When I started I was on scale 1, the least the school could get away with paying me. As long as they are allowed to get away with paying as little as possible they will carry on doing so.

john · 02-02-2006, 12:01 AM

Sounds a similar situation

kingswood · 02-02-2006, 08:46 AM

My school have been absolutely brilliant with me- not only listening last year when I said I needed a higher point when renegotiating my contract but also paying for lots of training this year. Then again, they probably get the money for training back in some form (do they Tony?)- and if that's the case I think the courses are *good* but ways of pacifying staff who would probably much rather have the money in their pay packet...

This year has to be different for me. I have a growing family, a mortgage, and little pay. My job has moved from Network Manager of the curriculum network towards some SIMS administration too and lots of other things. I have no job description- I don't think they could give me one.

So I've got to negotiate this year and it will be hard. Tony mentioned the BECTA Tech Competencies- I think these are a good start. If we start using those as a basis they may just catch on an be improved.

u8dmtm · 02-02-2006, 09:06 AM

Although it is sensible to part of a union, and professionally beneficial to be part of the BCS the only way I believe you can get a rise is to be more forward in saying so.

Too many non-teaching staff just keep their heads down and take whatever pay they are given and do any job they are told - unlike teachers who have strong limits.

School IT staff are key people - just see what happens if you are off sick for a few days! You need to make the SMG realise that.

nawbus · 02-02-2006, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u8dmtm

Although it is sensible to part of a union, and professionally beneficial to be part of the BCS the only way I believe you can get a rise is to be more forward in saying so.

Too many non-teaching staff just keep their heads down and take whatever pay they are given and do any job they are told - unlike teachers who have strong limits.

School IT staff are key people - just see what happens if you are off sick for a few days! You need to make the SMG realise that.

Problem is, even though you may individually be more forward in asking for a greater rise, the answer is generally 'no'!

russdev · 02-02-2006, 10:04 AM

got to say i got rise last year by being forward

ironic head says to me i been expecting this for a while now...

So point is if they say no then you know where you stand but i do agree there needs to more of national push on this..

Russ

GrumbleDook · 02-02-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingswood

My school have been absolutely brilliant with me- not only listening last year when I said I needed a higher point when renegotiating my contract but also paying for lots of training this year. Then again, they probably get the money for training back in some form (do they Tony?)- and if that's the case I think the courses are *good* but ways of pacifying staff who would probably much rather have the money in their pay packet...

This year has to be different for me. I have a growing family, a mortgage, and little pay. My job has moved from Network Manager of the curriculum network towards some SIMS administration too and lots of other things. I have no job description- I don't think they could give me one.

So I've got to negotiate this year and it will be hard. Tony mentioned the BECTA Tech Competencies- I think these are a good start. If we start using those as a basis they may just catch on an be improved.

Schools have a certain amount of money to pay for everything; salaries, buildings, IT kit and yes ... training. It is part and parcel of the funding that comes in. They then have to spend it on the areas that they deem most appropriate in accordance with guidelines from 101 different places (well ... seems like that sometimes).

Part of that is CPD ... making sute *all* staff are trained up for doing the job they are doing and expanding their skills where appropriate. Some schools are better than others ... some schools shave off the training budget to pay for other things and that means they may decide only teachers (and only specific ones) will go on courses.

One of the best ways of approaching training is to get the school to pay for books and online materials, and then get an allotted time each week when you can disappear for 2 hours to do stuff.

Cost is another problem. A lot of computing courses cost a flippin' fortune and you will be politely told to go away. That is one of the reasons why there are plans to get regional training sessions going that will, hopefully, not cost a penny to the school sending you.

More on this in the next few weeks.

TechMonkey · 02-02-2006, 10:28 AM

Now regional training we would be VERY interested in.

One of my main troubles recently is I don't feel I am moving on. The school has been good to me generally, though more pay is always welcome, even paid 30% of a Foundation degree I'm on, but for actual computer training we don't get much. Getting RM (My name is TechMonkey, and I'm an RM user

) was decided because the cost of training would have been high initially and we needed the system up and running soon as. But now I'm feeling like I am stagnating a bit, skills are going cold. I can handle most things but if I was to head off into the big wide world I don't think I could get a similar job as I have because I dont have the backend (ohh errr!) knowledge. There is no chance of picking it up really as the courses are way too much for the school to pay for so I start feeling a bit insecure.

Hug me someone!

Or just let me know when more is known about the courses.

Welcome, Register for free! or Login below:
User Name		Remember Me?
Password

01-02-2006, 01:40 PM	#1
russdev Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 5,124 Thanks: 34 Thanked 76 Times in 52 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 30	unions/bcs ok as said in another thread... I am going to start meeting with support staff unions and bcs to try and feedback how these orgs can help you as ict support staff.. So what can these orgs do for you what do you want sorting, what issues do you have... First one I a meeting with is unison local level at moment but in lue of of her taling it up chain of command etc.. So come on so what woud you want changing, how can they help you, ideas, from simple to complex Russ

01-02-2006, 01:51 PM	#2
Geoff Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Fylde, Lancs, UK. Posts: 9,839 Thanks: 41 Thanked 217 Times in 198 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 64	Re: unions/bcs The level of pay in Lancs schools for IT techs are all over the shop. I'm getting paid Grade 4 in the schools I work at yet the technician I work with gets paid on Grade 2 for doing the same job in the same school. Lancs needs some central rules for pay scales badly.

01-02-2006, 01:52 PM	#3
nawbus Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Newcastle-under-Lyme, Staffordshire Posts: 141 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 8	Re: unions/bcs I think there has to be a total change of direction with the unions. Educational support staff get a bit of a 'raw deal' when it comes to unions as our unions tend to cover many different jobs and sectors - GMB & UNISON come to mind. Where as the teacher's unions are for teachers only and are therefore very powerful. Each member of a teching union is or was a teacher so they know what they are talking about in relation to their members. Where as you and I are represented by (not meant in a direspectful way) nurses or council employees who don't know much about the educational sector. Trouble is I can't see a way round this without starting a new union for educaional support staff, and that gets complicated!

01-02-2006, 02:31 PM	#4
GrumbleDook Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Kettering, Northants Posts: 4,945 Thanks: 50 Thanked 190 Times in 99 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 49	Re: unions/bcs We cannot move forward towards reasonable and equal pay until all schools, authorities and govt agencies agree that a standard set of job roles are created. That will not happen whilst the "outsourcing" bug is going on at both LEA and PFI level. All we can do is comparisons of jobs between schools and areas. See how your job compares to the Becta Tech Competencies (I know this only skims some bits ... but it is a start) and then ask others to do the same.

01-02-2006, 02:55 PM	#5
mark Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: x-communicated Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 35 Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts Blog Entries: 2 Rep Power: 16	Re: unions/bcs I'm a Unison Steward. Here in Powys there are moves to get a level playing field for staff accross the LEA to be paid the same rate for the same job. We are to be assessed as part of a county wide Job Evaluation process thats due to end soon. The Welsh AM for Education Jane Davidson even backs it, but there's serious opposition from the Head Teachers who think they'll never lose this level of control over thier domains. We shall see.

01-02-2006, 03:39 PM	#6
webman Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bishop Auckland, County Durham Posts: 5,514 Thanks: 89 Thanked 77 Times in 62 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 35	Re: unions/bcs It's not just the schools and LEAs that need to standardise their own pay scales, I think the whole country has to conform to one standard, like they do for teachers.

01-02-2006, 03:53 PM	#7
broc Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: England Posts: 725 Thanks: 13 Thanked 48 Times in 30 Posts Rep Power: 16	Re: unions/bcs I think the local government employers will fight tooth & nail to avoid a national agreement. I am not sure the schools would be very happy either, as they might have to pay market rates for the job whereas today they get away with paying as little as possible. I have seen technicians on scale 2-6 and network managers from 5 to PO8. Factor in all of the changes in the pipeline, like the White Paper, workload reform, single status and it is easy to see why nothing will happen quickly.

01-02-2006, 04:06 PM	#8
webman Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bishop Auckland, County Durham Posts: 5,514 Thanks: 89 Thanked 77 Times in 62 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 35	Re: unions/bcs When I started I was on scale 1, the least the school could get away with paying me. As long as they are allowed to get away with paying as little as possible they will carry on doing so.

02-02-2006, 12:01 AM	#9
john Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Northern England Posts: 4,287 Thanks: 86 Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts Rep Power: 24	Re: unions/bcs Sounds a similar situation

02-02-2006, 08:46 AM	#10
kingswood Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Corby Posts: 1,020 Thanks: 5 Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts Rep Power: 11	Re: unions/bcs My school have been absolutely brilliant with me- not only listening last year when I said I needed a higher point when renegotiating my contract but also paying for lots of training this year. Then again, they probably get the money for training back in some form (do they Tony?)- and if that's the case I think the courses are good but ways of pacifying staff who would probably much rather have the money in their pay packet... This year has to be different for me. I have a growing family, a mortgage, and little pay. My job has moved from Network Manager of the curriculum network towards some SIMS administration too and lots of other things. I have no job description- I don't think they could give me one. So I've got to negotiate this year and it will be hard. Tony mentioned the BECTA Tech Competencies- I think these are a good start. If we start using those as a basis they may just catch on an be improved.

02-02-2006, 09:06 AM	#11
u8dmtm Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wirral Posts: 131 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 0	Re: unions/bcs Although it is sensible to part of a union, and professionally beneficial to be part of the BCS the only way I believe you can get a rise is to be more forward in saying so. Too many non-teaching staff just keep their heads down and take whatever pay they are given and do any job they are told - unlike teachers who have strong limits. School IT staff are key people - just see what happens if you are off sick for a few days! You need to make the SMG realise that.

02-02-2006, 10:04 AM	#13
russdev Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 5,124 Thanks: 34 Thanked 76 Times in 52 Posts Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 30	Re: unions/bcs got to say i got rise last year by being forward ironic head says to me i been expecting this for a while now... So point is if they say no then you know where you stand but i do agree there needs to more of national push on this.. Russ

02-02-2006, 10:28 AM	#15
TechMonkey Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: East Sussex Posts: 1,089 Thanks: 5 Thanked 33 Times in 25 Posts Rep Power: 17	Re: unions/bcs Now regional training we would be VERY interested in. One of my main troubles recently is I don't feel I am moving on. The school has been good to me generally, though more pay is always welcome, even paid 30% of a Foundation degree I'm on, but for actual computer training we don't get much. Getting RM (My name is TechMonkey, and I'm an RM user ) was decided because the cost of training would have been high initially and we needed the system up and running soon as. But now I'm feeling like I am stagnating a bit, skills are going cold. I can handle most things but if I was to head off into the big wide world I don't think I could get a similar job as I have because I dont have the backend (ohh errr!) knowledge. There is no chance of picking it up really as the courses are way too much for the school to pay for so I start feeling a bit insecure. Hug me someone! Or just let me know when more is known about the courses.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Register now for FREE and post messages!
Username: Password: Confirm Password: E-Mail: Confirm E-Mail: Birthday: Image Verification I agree to forum rules

Thread Tools	Search Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search Thread: Advanced Search

General Chat forum sponsored by