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General Chat Thread, Pupil Discipline in General; This really gets me. One unruly kid is allowed to wreck a complete lesson. We have a removal policy. As ...
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    Pupil Discipline

    This really gets me. One unruly kid is allowed to wreck a complete lesson. We have a removal policy. As a last resort, a teacher can send a pupil to another class. ie. move the problem. It is so pathetic that nobody uses it. Sending a pupil out of class is seen by SMT as a reflection on the teacher's abilities.

    I think there is a very simple and cost-effective solution. There must be countless Armed Forces NCOs who are retiring. These guys have made a career in keeping unruly guys in check and maintaining the highest level of discipline.

    So, if each school employs one of these guys, unruly kids can be sent to them. A programme could be developed to try and help them with their anti-social problems. It could be square-bashing, cleaning the minibus, sweeping the paths. The kids might think it preferrableto lessons but providing it is done properly, they will be learning valuable life skills.

    The ex-NCOs will probably be on a reasonable pension, so won't need a huge salary. In fact, I'm sure many of them would relish the opportunity to put something back into society.

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    CHR1S's Avatar
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    Sounds like a great idea to me!

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    beeswax's Avatar
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    heard this on the radio the other day.

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    russdev's Avatar
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    Interesting their was debate about this on bbc breakfast other day.

    Main thing was that nco were not used as replacement teachers.

    But there few orgs that do work with ex-army people in schools.

    Russ

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    TechMonkey's Avatar
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    Seems a good idea. Used to be being under fire, used to management that isn't always clued up to the situation on the ground, used to relying on and respecting support sections (Ok with lots of deriding and jokes) and if all else fails know 101 ways to kill with bare hands and dispose of the evidence. Ideal

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechMonkey View Post
    Seems a good idea. Used to be being under fire, used to management that isn't always clued up to the situation on the ground, used to relying on and respecting support sections (Ok with lots of deriding and jokes) and if all else fails know 101 ways to kill with bare hands and dispose of the evidence. Ideal

    And probably a lot more willing than teaching staff to help move 30 new computers that have been dumped in the drive by the delivery man

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    ICT_GUY's Avatar
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    We need sin bins.

    In my experience the same minority of pupils, typically 5 - 10 hard core idiots per year group cause 99% of the problems. Remove them to a "training" school. Get rid of the trouble makers and the rest of the kids stand a much better chance of learning. This still happens in Germany, and it is quite effective.

    The alternative is to have discipline in the schools, and to have discipline you must have sanctions that the kids do not like. Even stupid things like if a kid causes trouble whilst standing outside the heads office, I bring them in and get them to stare at a blank monitor.

    If I had my way, detention would take place whilst listening to classical music. Double whammy of culture and the calming effects of the music.

    Though in all honesty the best punishment is always the one that is feared above all others that is shown but only used occasionally. I was shown the cane a few times while at school, not hit with it but made aware that it was there and that it could still be used.

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    beeswax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICT_GUY View Post
    If I had my way, detention would take place whilst listening to classical music. Double whammy of culture and the calming effects of the music.
    It certainly worked for Alex in A Clockwork Orange. ;-)

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    MK-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICT_GUY View Post
    Though in all honesty the best punishment is always the one that is feared above all others that is shown but only used occasionally. I was shown the cane a few times while at school, not hit with it but made aware that it was there and that it could still be used.
    That's the thing. Show them a cane nowadays and not only are you damaging these poor darlings fragile little minds with threats of physical violence, but if you were to use it they would probably have half the estate down at the end of school to lynch you.

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    tech_guy's Avatar
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    Glass Houses. Floggings. Pillories. I'm all for it. Sod human rights - if they behave like scum they don't deserve any.

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    At our "parent" academy, they have an ex-army (IIRC) chap who is the "enforcer"..and boy, does he scare the kids.

    We have an ex-copper, who did time in the army and has a polished up mortar sat on his desk..not quite as effective.

    But yes, we need to stuff the nicey-nicey approach, and flog the little barstewards..bring back the evil people.

    When we sit and tell then about our schooldays (the flinging of the boardrubber - felt side for minor, wood for major..the running round the sportsfield, the dragging round by the ears) they think that we're either:

    a) Making it up

    or

    b) From the dark ages.

    and it really annoys me. Then they say "I'd sue if they did it to me...". Oh, would you? I used to take what I deserved, and I'd be scared to go home after..as for parents evenings...I dreaded them.

    About the only teacher i've seen who the kids loathe due to his punishments here is the PE chap, who beasts them in the middle of the classroom..now THAT'S comedy. "YOU! Get down, 30 press ups, no lip"...then he tends to put books on them to add weight..

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    russdev's Avatar
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    @sirbendy

    I agree and disagree with that comment agree the I will sue you attitude is wrong but the problem that can have with the tough love approach is that very easy to slide and end up like in Jersey where you have some systematic abuse.

    Russ

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    farmerste's Avatar
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    the real problem........

    i think the real problem is this weak pathetic government, all it has done is destroy manufacturing, turn everyone into a criminal, at the same time make someone else responsible for your actions, no matter how stupid you are, and increase red tape into everything, thus giving jobs to the 'BOYS' who would otherwise be unemployable 'do-gooders'

    if it aint broke don't fix it, education was fine with the cane, and o-levels, and needed no reform.

    with the money that is put into schools now, think what could be achieved if there was some discipline too !!

    but i'd vote for you lot, anyone thinking of standing for parliament?
    :-)

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    Netman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russdev View Post
    @sirbendy

    I agree and disagree with that comment agree the I will sue you attitude is wrong but the problem that can have with the tough love approach is that very easy to slide and end up like in Jersey where you have some systematic abuse.

    Russ
    I think discipline and child abuse are completely different things Russ - one doesn't need to lead to the other at all....

    I agree with most of the others here - the problem is not the kids IMO - it's the apathetic wishy washy 'give 'em whatever they want to shut 'em up' useless parents.

    I think I'll stand for parliament - what about the 'Being a parent brings responsibilty' party..?

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    Quote Originally Posted by farmerste View Post
    i think the real problem is this weak pathetic government, all it has done is destroy manufacturing, turn everyone into a criminal, at the same time make someone else responsible for your actions, no matter how stupid you are, and increase red tape into everything, thus giving jobs to the 'BOYS' who would otherwise be unemployable 'do-gooders'

    if it aint broke don't fix it, education was fine with the cane, and o-levels, and needed no reform.

    with the money that is put into schools now, think what could be achieved if there was some discipline too !!

    but i'd vote for you lot, anyone thinking of standing for parliament?
    :-)
    I think the Tories had done all of that long before this governement (who I admit haven't helped)

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