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General Chat Thread, BSF - or outsourcing by another name in General; I wouldn't care about the name if it wasn't for the reaction that I've seen the name provoke. What about ...
  1. #31

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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    I wouldn't care about the name if it wasn't for the reaction that I've seen the name provoke.

    What about a poll on whether people want this name, or one that doesn't contain the word "geek".

    Are you sure you mean "impersonal"?

  2. #32

    russdev's Avatar
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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    to be honest name change is a very bad idea in my view as said the edugeek.net is now a brand and very well known brand and has high regard in many circles....

    i my view you would need a really good reason to change it and at this stage i think anychange to name woudl kill the work that has gone on so far and about to go on

    In releation to logo to certain degree that is one thing can change and not have to much effect on 'marketing' of the site as as logo but then again you need a good reason...

    what people forget is we are a brand and so an change have to look at benafits vers the disadvantages

    and as for sniggers at name do what i do educate them they soon take a step back when they reliase how big the the site and org is....

    russ

  3. #33
    u8dmtm's Avatar
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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    Yes they do mean personal rather than impersonal but semantics asside the issue remains and if EduGeek is to be useful in promoting the valid views of its members then its members should stop worrying about what it is called and start thinking about how they can contribute. If an EduGeek spokesperson was ever approached by the media - which is what is needed to get the issues promoted then the press would probably not be interested in the name anyway (e.g. 'an Edugeek spokesman, which represents IT professionals in education said .....)

    I think a set of stated key aims would be a good starting place.

  4. #34

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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    Quote Originally Posted by russdev
    to be honest name change is a very bad idea in my view as said the edugeek.net is now a brand and very well known brand and has high regard in many circles....
    Just out of interest, which circles are these?

    To be honest, if this group now has that much pull then simply putting out a press release saying "edugeek will now be known as" would actually be good publicity.

    and as for sniggers at name do what i do educate them they soon take a step back when they reliase how big the the site and org is....
    Or perhaps they make the assumption that IT support in education is controlled by an enormous group of geeks. I think that probably works both ways. 8O

    Next thing you know, you'll be producing obnoxious loud ties (the type that stereotypical geeks wear) with the Edugeek logo on them...oh man......

  5. #35

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    "What shall we do tonight, Brain?"

    Same thing we do every night, Pinky! Try to take over the *world*!!!"


    erm ... I take it that this is not the key aim then?

    My response to this thread will appear later, but can be summed up simply.

    We are a group of professionals that seek to help schools and institutes get the most of of the money that is invested in ICT in schools, through best practise and sharing of information; and also help schools via activities which will give the most impact on Learning & Teaching through ICT.

  6. #36
    ChrisH's Avatar
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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    Theres a site called edugeeks.com as well formed by ..... Retired teachers so if a person of retirement age who will have taught for many years thinks this kind of name is ok then I would say the majority of people would think that too

    Edugeeks was founded by retired certified teachers who want to continue helping students learn.

  7. #37

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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    Retired American teachers..... not really a worthwhile comparison?

  8. #38
    ChrisH's Avatar
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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    Well I doubt there will be any persuading you no matter what we say so I wont try. Edugeek is Edugeek and it is here to stay

  9. #39

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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    No, really, I'm open to persuasion....I've just not seen anything particularly persuasive yet

  10. #40

    russdev's Avatar
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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas
    Quote Originally Posted by russdev
    to be honest name change is a very bad idea in my view as said the edugeek.net is now a brand and very well known brand and has high regard in many circles....
    Just out of interest, which circles are these?

    sst,becta, dfes, unions, fe/he, leas to name a few...


    To be honest, if this group now has that much pull then simply putting out a press release saying "edugeek will now be known as" would actually be good publicity.
    yer but we have not that much sway but if we change name we have t work at it again db example is best snickers made massive mistake when they renamed marathon as it was brand people assoicated with and then they changed it to snickers so that it matched global brand but people had hard time accepting it...

    and as for sniggers at name do what i do educate them they soon take a step back when they reliase how big the the site and org is....

    Or perhaps they make the assumption that IT support in education is controlled by an enormous group of geeks. I think that probably works both ways. 8O

    Next thing you know, you'll be producing obnoxious loud ties (the type that stereotypical geeks wear) with the Edugeek logo on them...oh man......
    lol

    Russ

  11. #41

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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    I remember a long-into-the-night conversation with some friends whilst sat round a camp fire and we were discussing geeks and nerds.

    I had dropped into a groupd of people who would compliment you on IRC by saying "nice bit of geeking there" when you had described something rather technical to another less technical person.

    It was a mark of respect and when we tried to sum it all up it boiled down to a Geek is a nerd with social skills, a person with technical knowledge and expertise that is respected by peers and friends ... and deserves the capitalisation to differentiate from the person who has "you geek" hurled at them as in insult .. usually by some luser who thinks IT is all about clicking, double-clicking and reading emails.

    I was recently pointed to this page which gives a good description too.
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...and_nerds.html

    Basically ... a Geek is someone who has technical knowledge and expertise that may be very specific and should be reveered for it ... and EduGeek is a Geek that works in education.

    There are alternative URLs that we could use as a front for the site, but why bother ... the name of the site brings a wry smile to fellow NMs and Techies, and if I am with serious people with no sense of humour then I usually say that I am a staff member of one of the largest peer support groups of Network Managers and Technicians.

    If the Specialist Schools and Academies Trust can smile at it and appreciate the emphasis then pretty much anyone can.

  12. #42

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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    I've seen a whole host of explanations of the word geek. There's a fair few here:-

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=geek

    I'm really of the opinion that it's still widely used by those outside of IT as a term of derision.

    But, if you're sticking with the name, fair enough. I can see your reasons for that. There's not much else I can say.

  13. #43

    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    Quote Originally Posted by u8dmtm
    Yes they do mean personal rather than impersonal but semantics asside the issue remains and if EduGeek is to be useful in promoting the valid views of its members then its members should stop worrying about what it is called and start thinking about how they can contribute. If an EduGeek spokesperson was ever approached by the media - which is what is needed to get the issues promoted then the press would probably not be interested in the name anyway (e.g. 'an Edugeek spokesman, which represents IT professionals in education said .....)

    I think a set of stated key aims would be a good starting place.
    Exactly. Look at the Army RumouR Service (ARRSE!). They are mentioned in the media almost daily now, with no sniggering whatsoever.

  14. #44

    russdev's Avatar
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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    Quote Originally Posted by u8dmtm
    Yes they do mean personal rather than impersonal but semantics asside the issue remains and if EduGeek is to be useful in promoting the valid views of its members then its members should stop worrying about what it is called and start thinking about how they can contribute. If an EduGeek spokesperson was ever approached by the media - which is what is needed to get the issues promoted then the press would probably not be interested in the name anyway (e.g. 'an Edugeek spokesman, which represents IT professionals in education said .....)

    I think a set of stated key aims would be a good starting place.
    on that note i am starting to do media stuff and should be going live with new media are bascily one place for all those journos to found information.

    One of things i want is to get more and more journalists to use us more one way of doing that is by getting s searchable list together of people willing to talk and what they are willing to talk about...

    Also to encourage journalists to add us to there contact list (started that as we should be appearing in journalists contacts database used by many local rag journalists...

    Also remember we have edugeek bulletin where we can issue statements on national and local issues and so please if there is something that we should be commenting on then please let us know...

    russ

  15. #45

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    Re: BSF - or outsourcing by another name

    I share some of the concerns expressed about the 'geek' in the title of the site, however I feel the benefits to be gained from the collaboration and open honest discussion and information the site facilitates outways the slight discomfort felt admitting I associate with other 'geeks!

    I do want to return to discussing the technical aspects of outsourcing servers. The case for consolidating servers to a central managed operation seems to be based upon the unfounded & uncosted statement that managing ICT infrastructure is not a schools 'core business' and they should leave it to the 'professionals', an argument I find particularly offensive, having spent more than 30 years as an IT professional in industry before being recruited to my school to bring it some industrial strength experience.
    I am also Chair of Governors at a nearby Secondary school, having been a governor for more than 12 years during which time I have worked closely with the schools ICT department so I have a reasonable level of knowledge of school ICT provision .

    However, to defend the 'status quo' and argue for schools to manage and develop their own ICT infrastructure we cannot simply rely upon statements about how poor LEA support has been in the past/is at present; I need strong technical arguments to back up the 'instinct' that it is not a good idea otherwise we may be simply dismissed for protecting our own 'empires'.

    When I worked for 'Big Blue', we had some simple data rules as far as server consolidation was concerned; the two most important were to maintain a single copy if at all possible, and to keep active data close to the user. This model works well in business, where corporate data is kept on centralised corporate servers, with branch office servers storing branch data, and client workstations storing end user data. But, as WE are all too aware, schools aren't like that. There is little or no corporate data; a fair bit of branch data (Admin stuff), but the vast majority of data belongs to end users (mainly students) and this cannot/should not be located on client workstations.

    Based upon these rules server consolidation is not a good fit for schools.

    If we look at bandwidth requirements:

    At my school we have 400 PCs each of which has a 100mbit network connection to a switch; these switches are connected via copper/fibre gbit to a 24 port gbit 'backbone' switch that also has multiple servers with native gbit NICs. If I move the servers 30km away, how much bandwidth would I need to maintain the response times for loading/saving files? The answer may not be clear-cut, however I believe a significant increase in bandwidth will be required from the typical 10mb-100mb broadband links schools have today.

    In any case, why would you locate a caching proxy server 30km away from your users? If a student retrieves a page from the www, what point is there in caching it if the 29 other users in his class all have the 30km link to negotiate to retrieve it themselves?

    What about imaging/reimaging workstations? Most schools use tools such as WSUS, RIS, Ghost etc to maintain software images on client PCs. Imagine the network traffic to support this?

    I need some more rational technical arguments to head off this ill-conceived idea.

    Brian

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