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General Chat Thread, EU ban on vacuum cleaners above 1,600W in General; Originally Posted by pcstru It's not just about consumption. A lower power draw will help on the supply side - ...
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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    It's not just about consumption. A lower power draw will help on the supply side - it is more efficient to ramp up supply for longer periods.
    That doesn't really help electricity producers though, that I can tell!

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    unixman_again's Avatar
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    I wonder how long it will be before vacuum cleaner upgrade kits appear on the market? The EU might have banned the sale of powerful vacuum cleaners, but not electric motors. When they banned 100W incandescent light bulbs, some enterprising people started to sell 100W mini heaters. Mind you the light bulb ban was ineffective, as it is still very easy to buy "proper" 100W-ers rather than the newfangled dim energy savers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    I wonder how long it will be before vacuum cleaner upgrade kits appear on the market? The EU might have banned the sale of powerful vacuum cleaners, but not electric motors. When they banned 100W incandescent light bulbs, some enterprising people started to sell 100W mini heaters. Mind you the light bulb ban was ineffective, as it is still very easy to buy "proper" 100W-ers rather than the newfangled dim energy savers.
    now while i agree energy saver bulbs are dreadful led bulbs are much better and i prefer them to normal bulbs

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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    newfangled dim energy savers.
    I wouldn't exactly call energy saving light bulbs new fangled. They've been around for ages.

    I recently replaced all of the energy saving light bulbs in my house with 800 lumen LED bulbs. Much much brighter and they less power too (8 to 9.5 watts, compared to 14 watts previously).

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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    When they banned 100W incandescent light bulbs, some enterprising people started to sell 100W mini heaters. Mind you the light bulb ban was ineffective, as it is still very easy to buy "proper" 100W-ers rather than the newfangled dim energy savers.
    I guess it depends if you want energy you pay for to provide light or heat. Energy saving bulbs have improved substantially in terms of ramp up and 'half life' but if it is too dim, you can simply buy a higher output and still pocket a sizeable difference in running cost vs any incandescent bulb lumen for lumen.

    I find it amazing that measures which can only benefit consumers seem to draw such opprobrium.

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    AMLightfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    Why? Manufacturers use power more as a marketing tool than any difference it makes to picking up dust, grit or hair. As you say, for hair in particular, it's more about brushing than suction. Surely, we need _in principle_ to legislate on energy issues if our children are to have any chance.
    I'm not objecting so much to the whole 'Eco friendly' initiative as the fact that I find it grating that the 'EU', this big faceless 'bad guy' is dictating how people live their lives. It feels like a war of attrition. They'll keep adding restrictions one at a time until we're all living spartan, identical lives. Think 'Equilibrium' style. </tin hat>

    Quote Originally Posted by abillybob View Post
    Cats *Shudder* I don't like the things, I think they're the dirtiest pet you can have. This may be due to bad experiences and the fact I'm allergic but my dog for the past couple of weeks has suddenly somehow got fleas even though we use "Spot On" on him all of the time, we found a cat at the bottom of the garden the other day and I'm not kidding you fleas where jumping off this big fat ginger ball of fur people call pets. We can't find a way to stop this cat from coming into our garden and now have resulted to getting the hose pipe out, we don't even know who's cat it is.

    Sorry bit of a rant about cats there but I really don't like them, maybe get a small dog like our Cocker Spaniel instead our Vax hoover sucks up all dog hair and it's a 750Watt hoover
    To each their own. I can't stand small dogs. Horrible yappy nasty little things. They stink too. Anything smaller than a Labrador should be banned.

    That fat Ginger cat is either being neglected or is a stray. Animal welfare initiatives do require animals to be vaccinated/immunised and treated for Fleas. Cats will be cats and it doesn't matter what their owners do (we provide ours with a litter tray for example, but I can't force him to use it and the bag of cat poo left on my drive the other day says that one of our neighbours is taking a passive-aggressive approach to my cat using his garden as a toilet. I'd rather he just talk to me). If I were you and this cat were heavily flea infested, I'd contact the RSPCA as this is clearly a welfare issue. If the cat is a stray/abandoned/neglected they can take him and treat him, if it is being poorly cared for they can work with the owner to ensure it gets the right treatments.

    You CAN get the hose out but not every cat cares - mine loves water and regularly paddles in puddles. He's always coming in with wet, muddy feet.

    It's funny though - you say cats are dirty yet when you pet a dog, your hand comes away stinking and grimy but petting a cat doesn't leave dirt or a smell at all. I'm told that Gypsies hate cats because they have 'rules' that define what is a 'clean' animal vs what is a dirty one and if the animal grooms itself then it is considered 'dirty' but if it requires external grooming (like Horses for example) then it is considered 'clean'.

    For what it's worth, the cheap Bob Martin Spot on treatments are next to useless. Frontline is pretty good but not infallible but the best one I've encountered so far is 'Advocate' - it is a prescription only treatment I get from my vet and my cat has NEVER had fleas, ticks or ear mites since I've been using it. Bayer Animal Health: Fleas

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    unixman_again's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    I find it amazing that measures which can only benefit consumers seem to draw such opprobrium.
    The final word in your post, isn't one you hear every day! The change to energy saving bulbs didn't benefit this particular consumer. My entire house is lit with 100W bare bulbs (I do like it bright), with five in the lounge room. When I tested energy savers with my light meter, they were no were near as bright.

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    AMLightfoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    The final word in your post, isn't one you hear every day! The change to energy saving bulbs didn't benefit this particular consumer. My entire house is lit with 100W bare bulbs (I do like it bright), with five in the lounge room. When I tested energy savers with my light meter, they were no were near as bright.
    No - Energy saving bulbs are rubbish. They buzz too. That being said, I have a couple of Energy-saving daylight bulbs in my craft room and they are pretty good. I'm told LED bulbs are fantastic. We plan to replace all our little 'blade-style' bulbs with the LED versions.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    The final word in your post, isn't one you hear every day! The change to energy saving bulbs didn't benefit this particular consumer. My entire house is lit with 100W bare bulbs (I do like it bright), with five in the lounge room. When I tested energy savers with my light meter, they were no were near as bright.
    The ratings on energy efficient bulbs are a little off in my experience. I'm running 15W (100W equiv) bulbs in place of 60W. So, you probably want to look at the next ones up. Or look at LED models.

    You'll save a fortune in ongoing electricity costs!

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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    My entire house is lit with 100W bare bulbs (I do like it bright), with five in the lounge room.
    Try one of these LED bulbs...

    www.johnlewis.com/philips-9-5w-bc-energy-saving-led-classic-bulb-frosted/p449244

    I think you'll be surprised at how bright it is.

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    Have to agree with the EU on this one, the aim is to force manufacturers to make things as good as, or better than before, but more efficiently.

    Think about the £0 car tax for cars with less than 100g/km CO2, when it was first introduced, there were no engines that qualified (as far as I can remember), now there are loads, just as good as small engines were, but more efficient.

    Sometimes change needs to be implemented to give the manufacturers a kick up the backside. In a few years, the electric motors used will be so much better that todays (or we'll all get solid flooring as the vacuums (don't) suck!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by unixman_again View Post
    My entire house is lit with 100W bare bulbs (I do like it bright), with five in the lounge room. When I tested energy savers with my light meter, they were no were near as bright.
    I'm much the same in liking bright light. I just plump for bigger bulbs same as localzuk - and I still save on running costs. Unfortunately measuring light isn't straightforward - I'd guess your light meter is reading lux for example, whereas bulb output is generally measured in lumen's and lumens are themselves complicated if you have to measure the actual total output of a bulb rather than incident light falling on a sensor or within a defined area. The 'watts equivalent of an incandescent' is I think flawed, partly because incandescent bulbs are quite variable per watt per lumen. That's possibly why bulbs must now be labelled in lumen's (another EU law) which gives a more accurate assessment of total light output (but which can still be complicated by the dispersion). You can cut through all that *******s by just buying a bigger bulb if it's not bright enough :-).

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    All this talk of limiting energy consumption of kettles in the future is baffling to me.

    Anyone who knows any science will understand that it takes a given amount of energy to raise a given quantity of water from ambient temperature to 100 degrees C. Given that the 'wattage' (power) of a kettle is simply a measure of the rate at which it can provide that energy, reducing the power will simply increase the time taken to boil, with the same net consumption. What they need to do with kettles is come up with a way of encouraging the boiling of only the amount of water required rather than a full kettle.

    With the other devices, if they increase the efficiency of the kit as well as reducing the motor power, this should reduce the consumption by not decreasing productivity.

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    jinnantonnixx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crc-ict View Post
    ...snip....
    Given that the 'wattage' (power) of a kettle is simply a measure of the rate at which it can provide that energy, reducing the power will simply increase the time taken to boil, with the same net consumption. What they need to do with kettles is come up with a way of encouraging the boiling of only the amount of water required rather than a full kettle.
    ...
    In a nutshell.

    Moreover, the longer the kettle takes to boil, the more heat is lost in radiation. Why are there no insulated kettles? I think the secret is better design, rather than lower power (though this would come as a consequence of the better design)
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 2nd September 2014 at 11:43 AM.

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