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General Chat Thread, Malaysia Airlines MH17 Lost Over Ukraine - Shot Down? in General; Link: BBC News - LIVE: Ukraine airliner 'crash' updates There were 280 passengers and 15 crew members on board....
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    DaveP's Avatar
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    Malaysia Airlines MH17 Lost Over Ukraine - Shot Down?

    Link: BBC News - LIVE: Ukraine airliner 'crash' updates

    There were 280 passengers and 15 crew members on board.

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    FN-GM's Avatar
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    This link is better for a more accurate report - http://avherald.com/h?article=47770f9d&opt=0

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    There were 280 passengers and 15 crew members on board.


    Leading HIV researchers lost as flight MH17 is downed in Ukraine « The Telegraph

    The attacked Malaysia Airlines flight was carrying more than 100 of the world's leading Aids experts who were flying to an international conference in Melbourne, including the HIV researcher and "true humanitarian" Joep Lange.

    The victims, which have left the international HIV research community in mourning, included staff from the World Health Organisation and medical researchers, health workers and activists who were due to attend the twentieth International Aids Conference. Glenn Thomas, a Geneva-based WHO media adviser, is also believed to have been aboard.

    Dr Lange, a Dutchman, who was on board with his wife Jacqueline van Tongeren, was a former president of the International Aids Society and has been researching HIV for 30 years. He has authored more than 350 papers and helped lead the fight for the availability of affordable treatments across Asia and Africa.

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    Justice will never be done.

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    Two of the Australians onboard MH17 were relatives of the same family that also lost two family members in MH370

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    Vasriel's Avatar
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    Saw on the news tonight that there were 80 children on the flight. Such an utter waste of life, the families of these poor people have my deepest sympathy

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    If this is traced back to Russia then surely the minimum that must happen is for massive sanctions to be imposed. Ie take the World Cup away from Russia and freeze their assets.

    Sadly a military response is never going to be the answer. Will end up in global nuclear conflict. And that, comrade, is gonna put us all into a world of sh@t.....

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    seawolf's Avatar
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    No, war is a real possible result of this. It could either become just a wider regional conflict or draw in many other nations. At the end of WW2, everyone believed war had come to an end because of the Atom bomb. And, how many wars have their been since 1945? Nuclear weapons won't stop it.

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    If Putin doesn't start behaving I can see this going up in everyone's faces.

    You've got Russia on one side heavily ensconced into Crimea and probably heavily fortified their positions. I can see the build up along the Polish border increasing with Nato forces and it'll only take Russia to get caught doing something like this again and I can see us wading in against Russia.

    Putin wants to rebuild the USSR he's not going to stop short of being forced to militarily

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    Quote Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
    Nuclear weapons won't stop it.
    This was always going to be the likely scenario for a global nuclear war. Localised conflict in some godforsaken part of Eastern Europe or Arabia. Escalated to non nuclear conflict between Russia and the West. Further escalated to small nuclear weapons being used in the region purely against military targets. And then the ultimate escalation to long range ballistic missiles being fired across the globe against 'strategic' targets. Ie London, New York, Moscow. A chilling but hopefully unlikely scenario.

    Putin is looking at the West as being divided and militarily impotent. We've made massive cutbacks and the likes of ourselves gambled massively in axing aircraft carriers before the new ones are even delivered. Trust me, Russia is in no great shape militarily either. Funds are low, serviceability of equipment poor and numbers of what they posses often exaggerated.

    However they probably do have the stomach for a fight to 'reinvent' the USSR and Warsaw Pact. Whether we have the stomach to stop them is another matter.

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    Calm down people. There is not the possibility of, and nor will there be, a nuclear war.
    Now we must play a waiting game until all of the evidence is gathered and in place until concreat blame can be laid, even if the POTUS (President of the United States) has pointed fingers today.
    This is not the cold war, and as much as president Putin may seem to be trying to reassemble the old USSR, they now exist in a globalised world and with all that entails.
    What this means for Russia is that if the UN choose to introduce further sactions (they are already under some financial ones), it could hurt Russia far more than a localised conflict ever would.
    Perhaps banning the import of CPU's, computers and networking kit? How about mobile telephony equipment?
    As I said, it's a gloablised world and it's a long time since Russia manufactured everything it required.
    That is of course if the crime was commited by those under their influance using equipment they supplied.

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    Wars start out with a small confined conflict and slowly escalate to full scale total war. One day we are going to blow ourselves to kingdom come. But I don't think that time has come yet. Putin acts hard, but he is no fool and not a madman. Remember that who ever pushes the button can expect the same from the other side. So it's pointless, even taking into account pre emptive and all that crap.

    Maybe in 30 or so years when humans demand too much from the earth and panic sets in. At least once we are gone earth will repair its self after a few thousand years and new life will begin. Humans never learn until its too late. Hopefully who ever replaces us will do things better.

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    I think anyone's personal view on it is as valid as anyone else's, I don't think anyone will start lobbing nukes about its not a huge stretch to see something like Ukraine heading towards another "cuba"

    In many ways this not being the cold war makes Russia more likely to keep doing what they're doing given what they've done so far putin can't back down or admit anything.

    The Ukrainians seem to claim to have conversations between Russian commanders and rebels almost admitting they shot it down. All heresay at the moment.

    We do know former USSR states in the area are cropping themselves, Poland especially are demanding more and more Nato troops.

    No one expected Germany to March across Europe. The rule with these things is expect anything. I'm sure there won't be nukes it's in no one's interest especially if Russia is attempting expansion they don't want contaminated land.

    It remains to see what they will hit Russia with over this but the warning shots need to stop and real sanctions need to bite. Of course a big chunk of Europe are crapping it because of becoming reliant on Russian gas which is a huge problem.

    What happens when the osce get in to the crash site proper will be interesting but seeing as it looks like the black boxes have been returned, which is a huge problem they like to recover them themselves so they can see how the crash site played out.

    Of course there are terrible stories that the site is compromised with bodies being removed with out authorisation and suitcases etc being looted.

    What's the betting that something critical will be missing from the site now.

    I've got no confidence with the investigation at the moment but I hope I'm wrong and they can along with the intelligence services provide irrefutable proof that Russia has been supplying these scumbags and training them on their operation.
    Russia is a lot more dangerous and ruthless than people realise, when you look into what happened in chechnya for example.

    One to watch but whatever putin is a problem...

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    Malaysia Airlines MH17 Lost Over Ukraine - Shot Down?

    Irrespective of what happened to down the plane it is unforgivable to restrict access to the site.

    This is probably a controversial view but if access is continually denied a any overriding multi national force of Dutch, Malaysian, Brits, Yanks and anyone else who wants to join the quest for truth should parachuted in to secure the crash site and allow an investigation to be conducted but more importantly bring dignity to passengers who bodies are just laying out in the open like discarded toys of an alleged drunk pro Russian command.

    We will probably never know who ordered what as the black box is gone.
    Last edited by penfold_99; 20th July 2014 at 11:01 AM.

  15. Thanks to penfold_99 from:

    ButterflyMoon (21st July 2014)

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    DaveP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penfold_99 View Post
    Irrespective of what happened to down the plane it is unforgiv
    @penfold_99: Your reply seems incomplete.



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