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  1. #1

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Another rushed law, another death knell for privacy

    BBC News - Emergency phone and internet data retention to be passed

    The highest legislative court with power over this country strikes a law down as being unreasonable and invasive, and Cameron etc. decide that actually, no, they really like spying on all of us, so let's rush a law through and make sure we continue eroding the freedom and liberties of the nation while shouting and pointing about terrorists, the gift that keeps on giving.

    I think my gorge hit its heighest point when I read "It is the first duty of government to protect our national security and to act quickly when that security is compromised." - actually, Dave, I think the first duty is to protect its citizens. Sometimes that means national security, yes. Right now, though, I think the greatest danger to our citizenry is you.

    Please, nobody reply with "I've got nothing to hide, so I've got nothing to fear" or variants thereof, because I haven't got the energy to fight with people who haven't done even the most basic research into this issue. It's a well trodden philosophical and political point, and parroting the line is nothing but a naÔve and simplistic acceptance of doing as you're told, ignorant of the realities of abuse of power which we've seen even this week with the convenient loss of the Westminster dossier on child abuse suspects.

  2. 5 Thanks to sonofsanta:

    kieransaul (10th July 2014), MrPstv (10th July 2014), stevenlong1985 (15th July 2014), TomDrummer (16th July 2014), witch (10th July 2014)

  3. #2


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    Not good!

    I actually posted about this new law three days ago, but no one seemed to be bothered by it judging by the response.

  4. #3
    Grey-gear's Avatar
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    Are they putting this law being put in place because the EU have said companies should not\don't need to keep records about who calls who and who e-mails who?

    This Law is only working till 2016 or when ever they extend it to.
    Last edited by Grey-gear; 10th July 2014 at 11:35 AM.

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    sparkeh's Avatar
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    Oh hey its ok its got a "sunset clause" which means its ends in 2016 so we can ramp up its powers for what replaces it have a sensible debate about what its replacement law should contain.

  6. #5

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    Not good!

    I actually posted about this new law three days ago, but no one seemed to be bothered by it judging by the response.
    Didn't think to search as it was a new story on the BBC site - sorry!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey-gear View Post
    Are they putting this law being put in place because the EU have said companies should not\don't need to keep records about who calls who and who e-mails who?
    Yes - EU Court has struck down the law that forced companies to keep the data, so the government are drafting a direct replacement to cover the issue in our own legislation. Don't like a decision Europe has made? Just re-instate the original state of affairs with your own law in the meantime, knowing it'll take time for any legal challenge to go through!

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkeh View Post
    Oh hey its ok its got a "sunset clause" which means its ends in 2016 so we can ramp up its powers for what replaces it have a sensible debate about what its replacement law should contain.
    I read it as "it has a sunset clause so we can assuage fears now then quietly implement a permanent law in two years when everyone has forgotten/gotten used to the idea/we can say it's been fine for two years, why complain now, do you want the terrorists to win?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28237111]I think my gorge hit its heighest point when I read "It is the first duty of government to protect our national security and to act quickly when that security is compromised." - actually, Dave, I think the first duty is to protect its citizens. Sometimes that means national security, yes. Right now, though, I think the greatest danger to our citizenry is you.
    It is not a failing that just affects DC or even the Conservatives. These erosions of our right to privacy and liberty seem to (too easily) acquire all party support. Why is that? That's what I really don't get.

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    Another rushed law, another death knell for privacy

    Do I even have the right to privacy anymore?

    You can watch parliament debating it live here: BBC Democracy Live - Communications data statement

    edit: the debate has finished.
    Last edited by kieransaul; 10th July 2014 at 12:40 PM.

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    Grey-gear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    These erosions of our right to privacy and liberty seem to (too easily) acquire all party support. Why is that? That's what I really don't get.
    Calls to questions is this really a democracy or some new form of goverment?

    Quote Originally Posted by kieransaul View Post
    Do I even have the right to privacy anymore?
    Did we ever?
    Last edited by Grey-gear; 10th July 2014 at 11:52 AM.

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    It is not a failing that just affects DC or even the Conservatives. These erosions of our right to privacy and liberty seem to (too easily) acquire all party support. Why is that? That's what I really don't get.
    +1 that - the Lib Dems don't seem to think very liberally any more, do they?

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    hardtailstar's Avatar
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    Could somebody explain this to me as i dont understand it! lol

  12. #11

    localzuk's Avatar
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    We aren't a democracy, we're a constitutional monarchy. The only true concept of a democracy is one where there isn't a monarch that can dissolve parliament (ie. ignore the will of the people).

    Someone described the type of society we live in very well the other day. They called it "neo-feudal", which I feel fits very nicely. The only real outcome is that everyone will get so sick of the corruption and erosion of rights that they will revolt. It might be a while, but it'll most likely happen I reckon.

  13. #12

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    I haven't done an exhaustive web search so forgive me, but the Beeb article doesn't really give enough detail for me to hold an opinion on the emergency law itself. Statistically I fail to see what the problem is unless you are already waiting for the old bill to knock on your door for some reason.

    The only worrying sentence in the article was "Mr Cameron repeated his vow to push ahead with plans for a giant database of all websites visited by UK citizens" but that's only because it suggests our beloved leader fundamentally misunderstands how the Internet works. He might as well propose a UK Plc buyout of Google, and even then I doubt his database would be anywhere near complete.

    That article speaks more on EU democracy (a true oxymoron) and the politics of an in/out referendum than it does personal privacy.

    Just what are the powers being proposed? Who exactly can use them? What are the limitations of use on those powers? How exactly are they to be exercised.

    I suppose, given the quick one week turn around, the answers to those questions are likely to contain more holes than a good Swiss cheese. Maybe the real story is parliament being allowed to turn around any legislation in such a short space of time? I take it is going to be exempt from the usual three readings in each house - or are they really going to push through the entire system that quickly?

  14. #13

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    I haven't done an exhaustive web search so forgive me, but the Beeb article doesn't really give enough detail for me to hold an opinion on the emergency law itself.
    There's not enough detail because the Bill hasn't been published yet, we've just been told it's happening:
    To pass any new law in just a week is rare. So too is it to have the backing of all three main parties even before it is published.
    (BBC News - Emergency phone and internet data storage law to be brought in)

    Which doesn't bode well. Last time they rushed a law through this quickly, IIRC, was the ironically-named Digital Economy Act, done in the dying days of a parliament as part of the wash-up process and passed without the normal due process.
    Attachment 25541
    (source: Digital economy bill rushed through wash-up in late night session | Technology | theguardian.com)

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    Nothing to fear, nothing to hide.

    There is nothing new, only making legal what was already being done.

  16. #15

    tmcd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    There's not enough detail because the Bill hasn't been published yet, we've just been told it's happening:
    I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous reply...

    Maybe the real story is parliament being allowed to turn around any legislation in such a short space of time?

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