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General Chat Thread, Another rushed law, another death knell for privacy in General; She also's quoted with Labour's shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said that people will only continue to support such powers ...
  1. #106

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    She also's quoted with
    Labour's shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said that people will only continue to support such powers if "safeguards aren't abused". She said trust among the British public was low because the government was rushing the bill through Parliament.
    which is a remarkably observant stance for a politician. Colour me surprised and impressed, as these things go.

    The timing hadn't gone unnoticed re: cabinet shuffle. I am glad, at least, that they amended the sunset clause to six months from two years, though I wouldn't be at all surprised if the replacement is suddenly rushed through in December after radio silence on the topic for the next six months.

    Oh, and look at the turnout!
    Name:  drips.jpg
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    I think "Democracy Live" may be an ironic programme title. (image source: screencap of BBC Democracy Live - Data Retention and Investigatory Power Bill)

  2. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    Mocking of "democracy" by the 3 party clique
    be great to contrast that House of Commons picture with the amount of politicians crying about their expenses.

    Its about time they all went on their 6 weeks holidays soon.
    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 15th July 2014 at 04:05 PM.

  3. #108

    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    be great to contrast that House of Commons picture with the amount of politicians crying about their expenses.

    Its about time they all went on their 6 weeks holidays soon.
    Or with the picture of the debate on pay for MPs:
    Another rushed law, another death knell for privacy-house-commons-010.jpg
    (source: MPs call for, in private at least, a 32% pay rise | Politics | The Guardian)

  4. Thanks to sonofsanta from:

    pcstru (16th July 2014)

  5. #109

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    https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2014/drip-heroes

    The MPs who voted against DRIP... Which, unsurprisingly, doesn't include mine.
    Last edited by X-13; 16th July 2014 at 08:47 AM.

  6. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2014/drip-heroes

    The MPs who voted against DRIP... Which, unsurprisingly, doesn't include mine.
    Not many divisions where you fing Dennis Skinner and Peter Bone in the same lobby!

  7. #111
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    It seems that there is a lot of criticism due to the speed that the bill passed, just shows you how the MPs can put the moc in democracy.

    BBC News - Commons passes emergency data laws despite criticism

  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grey-gear View Post
    It seems that there is a lot of criticism due to the speed that the bill passed, just shows you how the MPs can put the moc in democracy.

    BBC News - Commons passes emergency data laws despite criticism
    As I said before no point throwing toys out of the pram at the moment. They could end up doing a U-Turn in 2 days, 2 weeks or 2 months. When the election comes it could be a new Gov in charge and do another U-Turn on it. I'm not willing to lose any sleep over this matter or raise my blood pressure because nothing will change what the Gov wants to do.

  9. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    I'm not willing to lose any sleep over this matter or raise my blood pressure because nothing will change what the Gov wants to do.


    And this is why democracy fails, it is already at the point that the government does whatever it pleases and there is no recourse, just a choice as to the figurehead doing what a very few people tell them to do.
    Last edited by SYNACK; 16th July 2014 at 10:51 AM.

  10. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    As I said before no point throwing toys out of the pram at the moment. They could end up doing a U-Turn in 2 days, 2 weeks or 2 months. When the election comes it could be a new Gov in charge and do another U-Turn on it. I'm not willing to lose any sleep over this matter or raise my blood pressure because nothing will change what the Gov wants to do.
    To be fair, the speed and way this bill has been passed is something we should be vocal about. Should Parliament have the power to turn around laws so fast? And if so, under what circumstances?

    There are three things that worry me about this legislation regardless of it's actual intent:

    - Relationship with the EU. The purpose of the bill is to re-enact EU statute that has been deemed illegal by the EU courts.
    - The level of powers given to the secretary of state. When I glanced through the bill the other day it was very much "the Secretary of State can do whatever they please in defining data retention regulations"
    - The speed in which it progressed through Parliament. One week is no where near enough time for any statute to be properly debated.

    The core purpose of the legislation I have no problem with, agree with to some extent. The way this has been handled scares the bejebus out of me! One only hopes that after the next election seemingly sensible people like Yvette Cooper can restore our faith in democracy...

  11. #115
    Disease's Avatar
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    I think any additions to the law are irrelevant, anyone who thinks they have any privacy on the Net or phones is an idiot tbh. These laws just legalize what they are doing in secret and have been doing in secret for decades.

  12. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas08 View Post
    As I said before no point throwing toys out of the pram at the moment. They could end up doing a U-Turn in 2 days, 2 weeks or 2 months. When the election comes it could be a new Gov in charge and do another U-Turn on it. I'm not willing to lose any sleep over this matter or raise my blood pressure because nothing will change what the Gov wants to do.
    I know there's little point to being angry about this as it has not passed yet, but it just seems that no real thought has been put in to this.

  13. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disease View Post
    I think any additions to the law are irrelevant, anyone who thinks they have any privacy on the Net or phones is an idiot tbh. These laws just legalize what they are doing in secret and have been doing in secret for decades.
    Exactly. They are simply legalising what they have been doing for a long time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey-gear View Post
    I know there's little point to being angry about this as it has not passed yet, but it just seems that no real thought has been put in to this.
    I wouldn't disagree with you at all.

  14. #118


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    Quote Originally Posted by SYNACK View Post
    And this is why democracy fails, it is already at the point that the government does whatever it pleases and there is no recourse, just a choice as to the figurehead doing what a very few people tell them to do.
    but the system is so broke thats all we get. There is no way that anyone other than one of the 2 main parties will get in next time possibly with lib dems as a coalition partner. The system is rigged to keep politicians in a job there is as far as i can see nothing we can do about it banks/oil compaines/other big businesses have way more access (and more importantly influence) to mps than we do and so nothing will change. One of the main parties could annopunce they were going to do pretty much any horrible thing and i doubnt the voting stats would alter much

  15. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disease View Post
    anyone who thinks they have any privacy on the Net or phones is an idiot tbh.
    Ad hominem much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Disease View Post
    These laws just legalize what they are doing in secret and have been doing in secret for decades.
    Maybe it has been going on for decades in secret...

    It doesn't make it ok nor does it make it necessary.

    And making a law to allow something you've been doing in secret, which has been deemed illegal is not the way governments should be.

  16. #120
    Disease's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by X-13 View Post
    Ad hominem much?



    Maybe it has been going on for decades in secret...

    It doesn't make it ok nor does it make it necessary.

    And making a law to allow something you've been doing in secret, which has been deemed illegal is not the way governments should be.
    Not Ad Hominem at all, just plain simple truth, there is no argument about it there is no privacy on the net or phones simple as that.

    It may not be right but it is not going to stop happening and it is not going to go away so don't expect privacy. How do you think they foil so many terrorist plots. Also read up about how the US intercepted switches etc from major vendors on their delivery route, modify the firmware, repackage the product and send it on it's way to the customer. See how deep the rabbit hole goes and you will see why it's idiotic to expect privacy.

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...tting-implant/
    Last edited by Disease; 16th July 2014 at 11:09 AM.

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