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General Chat Thread, Another rushed law, another death knell for privacy in General; ...
  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    It'll be a secret military court like Chelsea Manning. That's why he wont go back.
    I agree that this is the most likely, although I don't know that it's a certainty. It is still a court of law, albeit military law. My point was that any case that the government or security service or military have against him will be made in that arena. Not to us. At least, not until he faces that court.



    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    He knows what they were doing and though it was wrong, risked never seeing his family or friends again. Risked being killed by a short sighted 'merican on his return if free and faces life in prison or death depending on what a secret court decides. Just because he goes back on an oath doesn't mean he is telling a lie now. To do something like that despite the threat to life and now having to life under constant threat he still done it. Most would be too scared. Most has been proven correct via other means, via admission from the peoples word you are taking, company reactions, law cases, leaked emails and slides from their documentation.
    I agree that this is one perception. And a compelling one. The idea that he still did it even though the risk was huge can be used to imply that he must have been morally righteous. Alternatively, I could infer that he was extremely naļve, or didn't care. The fact is, that we just don't know, and presumably any traitor, regardless of their motive, faced the same risks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Theblacksheep View Post
    "Damage the country" is very ambiguous term when it has nothing to back it up. They could argue all the hassle changing password and systems 'damaged the country', are they arguing that companies that changed to SSL by default "damaged the country" because they couldn't collect everything as easy...
    Again, I agree with you. Somebody (you? I don't recall) said that he wasn't a traitor because he didn't "damage his country". I'm not maintaining that he did damage his country, so can't really comment on what they 'could' argue. I'm just saying that the people who we would assume would be best-placed to judge say that he DID damage the country, and they want to make that case in court.

    And I AM playing Devil's advocate here... I'm not supporting or condemning Snowden ... I'm just saying that you (rightly?) mistrust what the American Government say on this issue, whereas I mistrust everyone.
    I don't believe what the US Government say, any more than I believe what Snowden says. But the idea that Snowden is more trustworthy because he broke his oath to his country and is now spilling secrets left, right and centre is laughable. He may well be telling the truth. He might not. The Government may well be telling the truth. They might not.
    Last edited by DPrince; 14th July 2014 at 06:12 PM.

  2. #92

    jinnantonnixx's Avatar
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    This is probably a bit off-topic, but utterly facscinating.

    Zoom into the map a bit, then press the play button. You can adjust the speed.

    Tell-all telephone | Data Protection | Digital | ZEIT ONLINE

    A bit of background
    Most people’s understanding of what can actually be done with the data provided by our mobile phones is theoretical; there were few real-world examples. That is why Malte Spitz from the German Green party decided to publish his own data collected from August 2009 to February 2010. However, to even access the information, he had to file a suit against telecommunications giant Deutsche Telekom.
    http://www.zeit.de/digital/datenschu...on-malte-spitz

    And this is the data that just ONE company has on a person.
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 14th July 2014 at 08:36 PM.

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  4. #93

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    Probably been said already, if you are on these lists of data already mined then you're not someone who these lists and mines are used to gain intelligence on.

    Rolling PAYG mobiles, did they not learn anything from 24 or breaking bad?

  5. #94


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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    Rolling PAYG mobiles
    Or a Blackphone?

    A review of the Blackphone, the Android for the paranoid « Ars Technica

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  7. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHR1S View Post
    Rolling PAYG mobiles, did they not learn anything from 24 or breaking bad?
    From Breaking Bad, I learned that once you are done with a phone you have to snap it in half!? They always snap them in half!! Why!?
    (Oh and I learned not to get involved in the meth business but that's a different topic).

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  9. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by jinnantonnixx View Post
    Data Protection: Betrayed by our own data | ZEIT ONLINE

    And this is the data that just ONE company has on a person.
    A very interesting read. Leads me to one question - what's the answer? Stop using all technology? or regulate the data produced?

  10. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    A very interesting read. Leads me to one question - what's the answer? Stop using all technology? or regulate the data produced?
    Or, stop everyone gathering this data all the time.

  11. #98
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    But how? Short of going back to paper and pencil for everything, we are permanently connected to the Internet. Everything we do leaves a record of site visited, every shot we fire in a game for entertainment, every film we stream, every silly cat GIF we view. Even if you were to disconnect completely or use encryption to hide what you do, you will still be targeted and snooped on in one way or another.

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  13. #99


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    Data protection legislation is meant to offer some protection in limiting the use of data to the purposes for which it is necessary. That still offers avenues for abuse but it does give individuals some control over their data.

    Snooping legislation increases the risk of abuse by increasing access - "Nothing to hide, nothing to fear" unfortunately doesn't take into account the many cases of abuse of power we find in 'government'.

  14. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by tmcd35 View Post
    A very interesting read. Leads me to one question - what's the answer? Stop using all technology? or regulate the data produced?

    You might laugh, but.....

    In the name of security, German NSA committee may turn to typewriters | Ars Technica

    But make sure you don't use these new-fangled electric typewriters.
    Soviet Spies Bugged World's First Electronic Typewriters


    Shortwave and one-time pads are still quite the thing.
    https://medium.com/war-is-boring/wan...w-af632c532db1
    Last edited by jinnantonnixx; 15th July 2014 at 12:33 PM.

  15. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by CAM View Post
    But how? Short of going back to paper and pencil for everything, we are permanently connected to the Internet. Everything we do leaves a record of site visited, every shot we fire in a game for entertainment, every film we stream, every silly cat GIF we view. Even if you were to disconnect completely or use encryption to hide what you do, you will still be targeted and snooped on in one way or another.
    It doesn't have to leave those traces. Perfectly easy to ban the retention of data beyond a week, say...

  16. #102
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    So how did everyone find today's well-timed cabinet shuffle distracting everyone from DRIP going through parliament today? UK Parliament rubber-stamps EMERGENCY data grab 'n' keep bill

  17. #103

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    IMHO, Labour's Yvette Cooper seems to have the right measure of the situation:

    "We cannot reject this legislation; it would be wrong to do so."

    The MP added that it could be used "to get the wider debate we need" on surveillance laws in Blighty, which includes a full review of the Regulation Investigatory Powers Act - a legislation passed by the then-Labour government in 2000

  18. #104

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    Charlie Brooker spotted it.
    What is Drip and how, precisely, will it help the government ruin your life? | Charlie Brooker | Comment is free | The Guardian

    But think of how safe we'll all be. A small price to pay. I'm warm and fuzzy already.

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  20. #105

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    Last edited by Theblacksheep; 15th July 2014 at 04:54 PM.

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